How much does an American auto worker make?

autoworkers
With all the talk of a possible government handout for the American auto industry, I started to wonder how much an American auto worker who is a member of the UAW union makes?  From CNN Money:

The current veteran UAW member at GM today has an average base wage of $28.12 an hour, but the cost of benefits, including pension and future retiree health care costs, nearly triples the cost to GM to $78.21, according to the Center for Automotive Research.

By comparison, new hires will be paid between $14 and $16.23 an hour. And even as they start to accumulate raises tied to seniority, the far less lucrative benefit package will limit GM’s cost for those employees to $25.65 an hour.

So not only do they make a substantial amount of money for doing basically unskilled factory work, they receive a substantial benefits package including a pension. I didn’t even know people still got pensions. I cannot imagine making $28 an hour to work on an assembly line and not have to put one single penny of that money into a 401K for my retirement.

It must be nice.

Comments

  1. Keith says

    Imagine what the executives and managers are making. No wonder cars are so high, average people cant afford them, and why they are going out of business… It dosent take a scholar to figure out this one

  2. workingclasshero says

    And the bums can’t even make a good car!
    The American worker is fat, lazy, and uneducated!

  3. says

    Are you sure about that workingclasshero? I mean, have you weighed or taken a body fat measurement on the American worker? Maybe the American worker is just packing a lot of muscle.

  4. says

    Assembly workers earn their money! The assembly line work is grueling and wearing on the body from performing continous tasks repeatedly over and over. It is a myth that assemblers are lazy and fat! Sure, there may be a small percentage who do not carry their weight as in any other work field, but the majority of them are hard-working, decent middle class and proud American workers.
    You will have to excuse us for being so fortunate to earn a good living. If it makes you feel a little better, the newer workers only make approx. $14.25 hr.

  5. says

    @Joe the autoworker: Why do UAW people seem to think they are the only ones working hard for a living? It’s weird. And why do you allow fellow union members to only make $14.25 when they are doing the same work? There’s a lot I don’t understand about unions.

  6. Tim says

    You work for one of the last of the DYING breeds of companies in America. Must be nice to be taken so good care of by an employer, probably why they are dying.

  7. John says

    Hey dude go stand on an assembly line all damn day and WORK. Can you support a family on 28.00 an hour. I would wager you make substantially more. Piss off. Heaven forbid these people make a living wage. I guess when everyone is making 8.00 an hour except for the top 1% then you will happy. It always cracks me up the people who bitch about high wages until they come for their jobs.

  8. david says

    You high paid unskilled workers make me ashamed to be an american. I went to school and have a nursing degree and only make half of what you do. Now you want me to bail you out so you can continue on with your good life. I can’t afford cable tv or the daily newspaper, nor can I afford to eat out.
    You all need to take a paycut starting with the CEO’s!!

  9. Golden Rule says

    I make $18.00 an hour as a security officer here in California. I started at $11.00 an hr over 5 years ago. I make $2.50 extra an hr for working the third shift. Do you all think that I make to much? I have been in recession all of my life so that word does not mean anything to me. I live like a king without the money of one. I drive two brand new motorcycles, 2007 Harley Sportster and a 2009 Honda Shadow Aero. I own a BMW 325i and a 2007 Pontiac G6. We have a 2008 35ft Thor Dutchman Denali 5th wheel trailer my wife and I live in and travel all the time. We eat out more now that the kids are grown and gone. So do I make a lot or do I know how to respect and take care of my money? If I made $8.00 an hour which I did I could still live like a king. I know the GOLDEN RULE. He who has the gold makes the rules. Oh yeah, I also have land in two states. Go figure.

  10. says

    When you are competing with the world you have to lower yourself to their standards. The American automakers is a piece of history whose time is running out and who is competing with the world. They can’t pay pensions and they have to limit health insurance. They also need to build a car that people want and they wouldn’t have any problems. When China and India get into the car race the American car will be non-existent.

  11. says

    Travis, I think if the automakers were in the car making business, they wouldn’t be in so much trouble right now. For too long now, they have been building trucks, vans, and SUV’s and then spending millions of dollars into convincing people that they need these massive vehicles to drive to work or to go buy groceries.

  12. mike says

    don”t worry you guys are jealous of me for making 28 bucks an hour and i’m jealous of those that make 50 an hour, and thier jealous of those that make 100

  13. fred says

    is it true that when an autoworker is laid off he continues to be paid for four years while doing nothing? i have also heard they are now given a lump sum payment of $100,000 when they are laid off. does anyone know? the union leaders keep telling us they have made major concessions but they never tell us what they are.

  14. lisa says

    the union workers are STUPID. they should have agreed to a slight wage cut instead of losing all of their pensions and benefits. look at what an enlisted person in the military person makes who is in iraq risking his life and quit being so greedy. the entire US will continue to crumble because of their greed.

  15. Gtruth says

    No they don’t Fred. and the 100000 is a buyout to sever all ties with the company pension and healthcare. we actually make 3.00 more an hour then our competitors. why dont you people bitch about them. Also it takes 24 man hours to complete a dodge ram truck with all costs legacy, healthcare etc. 24×74=1776 total cost labor and retiree costs for a ram truck. And if the credit crisis would not have hit the VEBA kick in to bring the total labor cost down to 54 an hour the VEBA takes the retiree healthcare obligations off the books. As far as being stupid i have two associate degrees in electronics and finishing up a bachelors degree in Computer Science (Network Engineering) From U of Michigan i am only one of many doing this we are Generation X autoworkers not babyboomers. And Lisa it is congresses greed that is screwing you not 255000 autoworkers stupid. Look at your trade agreements people.

  16. Larry says

    You should check out our “American” auto manufacturers’ activities, factories, and profitability below the equator. State of the art, in-house suppliers, etc, benefits galore for the regions they’re in, and this is NOT outsourcing. The UAW just quashed the first kick at the cat they had for a bailout. Suicide. Before long, the big three in America will be Toyota, Honda, and Hyundi, and the “old timer’s” UAW will not be employed there, but they could really give a rat’s ass because of their current benefit packs. Big changes comin”.

  17. gtruth says

    Yea well other countries have national healthcare and they subsidize their auto industries. Japan Paid for the battery development for hybrids our congress would rather spend a trillion in Iraq than to help their own people keep jobs and get good educations etc. Yea it may be suicide but watch and see how fast the paycuts come to the foreign workers NOW with no union to compare to.

  18. Just working says

    Does anyone know the average margin on a new GM auto? Also, what is it compared to Toyota or Honda?

    My wife and I will not buy American autos d/t “quality perception” and residual value. Anyone have any data about either of these?

  19. rob says

    if you have a GM or ford with 165,000 miles its wore out!
    If you have a honda with 200,000 miles Its still good for another ten years.
    Go figure. the auto workers do there job. but a crappy product is a crappy product

  20. rob says

    by the way I own a 91 caddy a 98 ford and 96 honda. all paid for and well maintained. have no plans to make a car pmnt the rest of my life. so I guess none of this really matters too much to me. I am paying the price for greedy people here though as the US falls because of the folks who buy more than they can afford.400,000 homes on 70,000 yr sallerys don’t stand to reason.

  21. Scott says

    To the UAW group. Better take a look at what other hard workging Americans are making. Some worked pretty hard to get an education are making much less than you. Welcome to reality! I do not want my tax dollars going to subsidize folks like you when I do not get the same level of benefits and retirement. Welcome to reality. I like my Honda. American made with American parts… much better than the crap coming from a bunch of overpaid UAW goons!

  22. fred says

    again, I would like to ask if anyone knows what concessions the UAW has made. the union always says it has made concessions but no reporter ever asks what they are.

  23. MIKE says

    WAGE & BENEFITS= 78 PER HOUR, ARE YOU KIDDING ME ? $2,000 IS ADDED TO THE PRICE OF A VEHICLE TO PAY FOR HEALTH CARE FOR AUTO WORKERS.
    YOU KID THE GOLDEN GOOSE, YA GOT GREEDY, YOU DESERVE WHAT YOU GET.

  24. marianne says

    Hi Joe the autoworker way to go, Only dumdass would agree to this article, my husband put 29.6 years in GM,and he worked hard for the money. At sixty his body feels every bit of it. If these people got off there cans and go to work in these plants, they would beside us. Over the years GM gave the worker a cost of living, it took years to get to twenty eight dollars a years, working on the line doing four to five hundred jobs a day the same thing over and over is not fun, it get old, you get tried, your hands and feet and legs start showing the signs of old age before it time. You are so tried all you won’t to do is lay down and pray you can get up and do it again.Everyday is the same the only different is it another day down.You won’t to write about something, do the war,bailout for wallstreet and the banks, they got there raise. All we won’t is a job and our pension. Yes most of us put money in psp and stock and lost our pants, you do here us crying about it. you don’t know what you are talking about. I know what the companies say they do, but do they really do it, it doesn’t cost that much to build a car, the GEO and STOCK HOLDER are making the big bucks here, if they got on the line, they too would see that every autoworker earns there pay.So before you shit on autoworker, come on down, let see how long you can go before you quit.Without the pay, the auto plant wouldn’t of not lasted this long. There would be so many unfilled jobs, why they would quit. So before all of you non autoworker start bitching about us, come on down, we will let you work beside us. It make me angry, you just don’t know what you are talking about. Before you jump on someone bandwagon, do the work. So just get over yourself. Before you judge someone walk a mile in there shoe.

  25. jeff says

    You are all full of such shit I also have a went to college got a nursing degree and school loans to pay of while only making less then 20 dollars an hour and i work in a hospital. if you work in a clinic you make much less almost min wage. I bet you that 90% of the people in this world would never be nurses because there is no way they would put of with the shit we do. We listen to patients bitch and complain, whine and blame everything on you when you had nothing to do with them coming there. i didnt go out into the street make them drink and smoke their life away and then laugh in thier face when they were in the hospital. Instead i put up with all their shit. i put up with every dickhead doctor that thinks he is god. I put up with the millions of rules that healthcare must follow. I put up with someone trying to sue you any chance they get, because maybe you forgot to wash your hands when you came in the room, nevermind the 750 times you did earlier that day just so you can wipe their lazy ass. I dont have a pension, i pay for most of my benefits and still before all the insurace and benefits come out i only make less the 20/hr. So lets see i maybe make 10-15/hr after everything comes out, so you can all kiss my ass. spoiled bunch of bitches.

  26. Mike says

    I’ve just read through all these comments and have one point to offer: If you cannot write a complete sentence in proper English, you should not be making $28.00/hr plus benefits.

  27. says

    Mike wrote:

    I’ve just read through all these comments and have one point to offer: If you cannot write a complete sentence in proper English, you should not be making $28.00/hr plus benefits.

    I could not agree with you more Mike.

  28. Ian says

    Do you really think that the american automakers would pay their workers $28 an hour + benefits if it wasn’t necessary. Its not like there is a bunch of dumbasses running these companies. Sure they may be down now, but they still have some highly eductated people in charge, and they wouldn’t be paying paying out that money if it wasn’t necessary. They want to make more money, just like everybody else. If they could pay the workers $10 an hour, im sure they would.
    Also, you can’t get mad at these people for making this much money. Have you ever thought to yourself ” I wish I made less money.” There not greedy, or self centered, they are just like the rest of the world. They see a good opportunity and they take advantage of it.

  29. Just working says

    Rick/Mike,
    I could not agree with both of you more. $28/hr, can’t spell, can’t write a complete sentence………maybe I’ll send my elementary school kids to work for the UAW!
    Taking advantage of a situation (i.e. working for the UAW) is one thing, us caring if they lose that “advantageous job” is another.

  30. easttexas says

    @david:
    if your making less than 15 per hour as an RN you are doing something wrong… they are making at least double that here!

  31. easttexas says

    it would be interesting to see how many GM workers do have educations. I have two family members who with teaching degrees working for them!

  32. W says

    Japan’s Auto pays the workers 1,000 yen an hour in average, which is less than $12. So you can see why GM cannot make profit.

  33. Chris says

    Wow, a lot of whining on this thread. $28+/hr isn’t much, my mother makes $24/hr as a 2nd year medical coder for a large regional hosptial. All she needed was a certificate that took less than 16 months to complete.

    And yes, Rick, pensions do exist. You will find them in automakers and their suppliers, the government sector, education, and some utilities.

    I work retail for $10.50/hr and I’m rank among the highest paid in the company at my position. No health ins., no penion, not even a 401k. The only difference: I’m not the jealous type, so I could care less what other people get. Allow me to corrupt the Lynyrd Skynyrd classic: “Richard Grasso’s Golden Parachute does not bother me. Does your lack of wealth accumulation bother you?”

  34. says

    @Chris: Maybe you should care what other people are making when they are demanding that you at $10.50/hr help subsidize their $28+/hr (plus benefits & pension) with your taxes.

    Also, quoting Lynyrd Skynyrd makes you sound stupid.

  35. Mike M says

    It doesn’t matter how much money anyone makes, the modern American sense of entitlement must stop. It’s called capitalism, if you fail, that’s it. Let the market take care of itself. Let the big three fail, if you’re a union worker, and you loose your job, tuff shit. The UAW stopped being about you, the worker, decades ago. The cost of labor in America is directly responsible for our failing auto industry. The Federal government should not be in the auto business any more than they should be in the mortgage business. All bailouts are wrong. Bottom line…..Why on gods green earth should I pay for you to keep your job/home/lifestyle, and more importantly, why do you think that I should?

  36. Lynn says

    Mike M,

    So it’s capitalism, let the big 3 fall. My god you are a complete idiot. For every one of the 255,000 workers employed by the big 3 domestic auto companies, there are another 7-10 spin off jobs in companies providing parts for the production of these cars. So in turn you will end up with 1,785,000 – 2,550,000 million unemployed people. People who will no longer eat out at the local restaurants or spend money on their kids after school activities. This in turn will impact the local communities and their businesses which used to have these auto workers spend money in their establishments. Now you will have more people laid-off because the local business will have to cut back on staff and hours because of a reduction in the number of their clients. And so it goes on and at the end of this I hope you will be there and I would love to see the look on your stupid face when your boss tells you that you no longer have a job.

    And for anyone else out there bitching about the hourly wage rate for autoworkers…..I would love to see you working in a stinking auto factory….none of you would last a week.

  37. says

    @Lynn:

    And for anyone else out there bitching about the hourly wage rate for autoworkers…..I would love to see you working in a stinking auto factory….none of you would last a week.

    Yeah, because everyone knows that the autoworkers that work for the big 3 are the hardest working people in the entire country. Even the ones that sit at the job bank all day doing nothing!

  38. Lynn says

    Hey Rick,

    I’m not saying that autoworkers are the hardest working people in the entire country there are a lot of other tough jobs out there, such as construction, asphalt-paving, bricklayers, farm workers, the girl at the local grocery store in the check-out standing on her feet all day….but do you notice that they have all one thing in common these a blue-collar jobs not white-collar jobs where you sit on your ass all day and stare at your computer and after 8 or 10 hours you say “boy what a long day I’ve worked really hard today”.

    Thank you for mentioning the autoworkers who have already lost their jobs and are at the job bank all day….I’m not surprised that they can not find any work because these days you require a university eduction…….pretty soon in this country you will need a university degree to clean toilets.

  39. says

    @Lynn:

    but do you notice that they have all one thing in common these a blue-collar jobs not white-collar jobs where you sit on your ass all day and stare at your computer and after 8 or 10 hours you say “boy what a long day I’ve worked really hard today”.

    The professions you mentioned having nothing in common with autoworkers who are employed by the big-3. They don’t make anything close to $28+/hr plus benefits and a pension. In that sense, UAW workers have more in common with white collar workers.

  40. Lynn says

    You’re right Rick, they don’t make anything close to $28/hr and whose fault is that….the autoworkers…NO.

    The fault lies at the feet of the greedy corporations (Wal-Mart for example) who are raking in million if not billion $$$ profits each year on the backs of their low-paid, benefit-less employees. The motto of these companies is “YOU SHOULD BE GLAD YOU HAVE A JOB”. America does not have a clue what it means to actually pay workers a “Living Wage”.

    And you should not keep harping on the plus benefits and pension equation. The autoworker only benefits from benefits if he uses those benefits (if you are healthy, only see the dentist once a year and get a new pair of glasses once a year your benefits amount to a whopping $0.16 cents per hour) and he only sees a pension if he actually lives to reach his pension years.

  41. says

    @Lynn: Do you realize that the only way UAW workers will continue getting $28+/hr plus benefits and a pension is if the taxpayer comes to the rescue with a $15 billion bailout? Most of those taxpayers don’t make anything close to $28+ hour. Most of those taxpayers don’t get anything close to the benefits that UAW worker enjoys. Most of those taxpayers don’t get a pension like the UAW workers do.

    That just doesn’t seem fair.

  42. Lynn says

    You’re right, it is not fair, but you can not blame the autoworker for what he has gained…you must condem the employers who have no regard or concern for the welfare of their employees.

    In the scheme of things $15 billion is not that much when compared to $700 billion bailout to the banks….where do you think that money is going to go…straight into the pockets of the already overpaid CEO’s, it will not change anything with regards to available credit for you and me.

    If you want to talk about something that is not fair, how about the hourly wage rate of bank and S&P 500 company CEO’s….averaging at about $5,290 per hour….We know these people have business degrees, but lets be honest nobody needs to make $11.75 million dollars a year, plus benefits and pension.

  43. says

    @Lynn: I’m not blaming the autoworker. And let’s be clear on something. Not every American autoworker is a member of the UAW. What we are talking about here are the big 3 automakers that need a bailout from the government just to stay afloat. One of the reasons that they need the bailout is because they pay far more than market rate for labor. As pointed out earlier, that works out to be on average $78.21 an hour per worker.

    That’s good money. If you can get it.

  44. Mike M says

    @Lynn: “My god you are a complete idiot.” I love it, call names.
    “…..at the end of this I hope you will be there and I would love to see the look on your stupid face when your boss tells you that you no longer have a job.”
    I’ve lost jobs, guess how I responded, I went and got another job. Guess how I didn’t respond, I didn’t bitch and moan about what a hard worker I am, I didn’t go to that local restaurant that I can’t afford anymore and say, hey give my employer money so I can keep my job.
    “…..I would love to see you working in a stinking auto factory….none of you would last a week.”
    I’d love to see you frame a house you wouldn’t last an hour. I’d love to see you drive a septic system sucking truck, you wouldn’t last 43 minutes, The point isn’t what great workers autoworkers are , or how apparently hard anyone’s job is, the point is that , I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR EMPLOYERS FAILURE.
    “…. but you cannot blame the autoworker for what he has gained…you must condemn the employers who have no regard or concern for the welfare of their employees.”
    Well put comrade, communism fails. No one is blaming the autoworker for what he has gained, I’m not blaming anyone. You’ve missed my point, and not answered my question. I’m saying that your employment status is not my responsibility. So again, why do you , the modern American autoworker, think that I should pay for you to keep your job?

  45. Brian says

    Well I’ve read alot of these ,and now that the Gov.and there new world order has got the hole darn planet ticked off at each other ,and yes this is the elite of us doing this to us just as it was in the past it will be also in the future ,so please take a minute and look back and you all will see ,History repeats its self ! And many of us will be left behind as the world turns.

  46. G says

    IresideI for one am not jealous of what others get paid.Ithink that a lot of people posting here are.Lets be honest.People making $12.00 an hour without any other benefits cannot buy new cars or houses or other items. these workers also have to receive government assistance to survive.If I were an employer,Iwould be ashamed that my workers had to be on welfare to get by.The employee salary&benefits package are approximately 10% of the cost of a new vehicle.What is the other 90%? Also I agree with easttexas.Nurses in central Louisiana,where I reside make over 30.00 an hour.I mean nurses not assistants.

  47. G says

    I for one am not jealous of what others get paid.Ithink that a lot of people posting here are.Lets be honest.People making $12.00 an hour without any other benefits cannot buy new cars or houses or other items. these workers also have to receive government assistance to survive.If I were an employer,Iwould be ashamed that my workers had to be on welfare to get by.The employee salary&benefits package are approximately 10% of the cost of a new vehicle.What is the other 90%? Also I agree with easttexas.Nurses in central Louisiana,where I reside make over 30.00 an hour.I mean nurses not assistants.

  48. Alan P. says

    I’ve noticed that no one has been commenting on the members of congress that have just given themselves a $4,600.00 dollar raise today while they demand that the middle class worker slash their pay rate, and give up their health care and benifits.
    All members of congress receive full pensions of what their yearly salary is when they retire plus full healthcare for life. Shouldn’t we demand that all government workers give up their pensions, health care and have their pay cut in half so that it is on a more level field with third world countries and what they pay their people.

  49. Alan P. says

    I do agree that the rate of hourly pay is very generous yet under a standard 40 hours a week your yearly pay would still leave you in the above average middle class range. Management dictates how many hours a week we work and how many vehicles are made even if there are already tens of thousands unsold sitting on lots on a daily basis. Most of my fellow workers just want to work a normal schedule and maybe get a little extra over-time once in a while. Not every day so you can never see your family.

    You still never made a comment about how congress receives automatic pay raises unless they vote against them which they never do. They also receive full health care for their family for life yet don’t have to pay a dime. Also no comment on how they receive full salary pensions for life? Isn’t all of that a legacy cost?

  50. says

    @Alan P.

    You still never made a comment about how congress receives automatic pay raises unless they vote against them which they never do.

    Why would I? Are members of congress building cars and trucks?

  51. Alan P. says

    So let me know. Will you only be happy if all UAW workers are making minimum wage, or is it everyone in the United States who isn’t a white collar worker. Over the past five years a lot of the work has changed and jobs have been combined so that you are not just putting a nut on a bolt. Which I agree was a total waste of manpower.

    Line workers must now do 5 or 6 jobs at once while walking backwards at difficult angles and under 60 seconds or less with no mistakes ever. Carpal tunnel, torn muscles, damaged tendons and ruptured disks have been on the rise because of this. There were work place rules in place to keep this from happening, but they were erased several years back.

    Machine workers must run mutiple lines which can be as long as a football field while trying to control quality and still make daily quotas. They are also responsible for maintaining the equipment while it is running. Computer and math skills are now needed to run these jobs. If the part is not up to quality standards and the employee tries to fix the problem management has the right to keep the machines running even if the part is of poor quality and can not be used. Just so they can make that days quota. I have seen millions of dollars wasted on a weekly basis because of that.

    Todays factory job has changed over the years. Computer, math and problem solving skills are now need to do these jobs. Most of the one part jobs have been eliminated. There are still a few overly simple one bolt jobs that could be paid at a lower rate or eliminated, but should all of these jobs I’ve mentioned be paid minimum wage after everything has been changed over the past five years? I don’t think so. I personally have always tried to do my best and take my job serious because of the pay and benifits I receive even though conditions in the factory have been getting worse over the years.

  52. Mike M says

    @Alan P.: Maybe you can answer the question that I’ve been asking. Why should the American tax payer foot the bill for your employers failure?

  53. says

    @Alan P.:

    So let me know. Will you only be happy if all UAW workers are making minimum wage, or is it everyone in the United States who isn’t a white collar worker.

    Is that a question? If it is, it doesn’t make any sense.

    Look, nothing you’ve said about working on a UAW assembly line is any different than the thousands of other jobs American workers are doing in 2008. The difference is that UAW members make dramatically more money to do the same type of work.

    There’s nothing wrong with making more money than everyone else doing the same type of work, unless of course it’s going to require a $15 billion bailout from the American taxpayer to keep the whole thing going.

  54. Mike M says

    By the way@Rick: , thank you for being a voice of reason here. I still haven’t seen any of the pro bailout crowd post anything other than what good, hard workers they are (except for Lynn with the “Every where I stop spending money will also go out of business” theory). And being a good, hard worker isn’t reason enough for me to justify a bailout.

  55. says

    @Mike M: My favorite Lynn argument is that the medical benefits a UAW member receives shouldn’t even be considered unless that UAW member gets sick and has to use them. I honestly think she doesn’t realize that most people — whether they are sick or not — must pay thousands of dollars a year for health insurance and then when they must see a doctor, pay co-payments and deductibles on top of their premiums.

  56. Jason says

    It is about time that the Union finally made some concessions. I don’t think it is right to perform unskilled labor and get paid that much. In fact, it is quite ridiculous since most professionals starting out don’t even make that amount of money, and they are doing far more than simply put the bumper on a car.

    Fact of the matter is that all Unions are corrupt and have outlasted their usefulness in society. The UAW is no exception. What I find so fascinating is that those workers were willing to stand by and have no job rather than having a job making less money.

    And to all of those who are asking themselves, have you been part of a union? Yes. Laborers International Union of North America. Worthless. One of the most corrupt unions there is.

    The American Auto Industry finally got what was coming to it after being so stupid the last 30 years. Maybe now they can focus more on making a higher quality product rather than accommodating the UAW brass.

  57. Alan P. says

    I would like to clarify one thing with everyone’s comments about the money that is being called a bailout. It is actually a loan that is being asked for that must be paid back. The $700 billion that has been given out to the financial companys is a bailout with no strings attached on how they were suppose to use it and it does not have to be paid back. What they did with that money was to give the top CEO’s bonuses and buy up smaller banks and fire people. Is congress doing anything to fix their mistake with that BAILOUT. No!

    It looks like everyone on this site wants to railroad the union worker because they feel that they should be paided less then they are. “Why should they be paided so much!” “I don’t make that much money!” “Thier just unskilled labor!” Thank you for all your lovely words and how you feel about your fellow man.

    I personally think most people today are underpaid, overworkered and taken advantage of by their employers and that they should be treated better. I do not have a problem with taking a reasonable paycut if it will help keep my job in the long run, but those cuts have to be made at every level. What is being asked is a loan not a bailout. I’m glad that congress chewed out the CEO’s when they came to Washington with only a empty hand asking for money and no plan the first time, but don’t take out your grips that because these “UNSKILLED UAW PEOPLE” make more money than me that they should all lose their jobs! I wouldn’t want you to lose your job.

  58. says

    @Alan P.: Are you sure that any loan given to the big 3 will be paid back? I’m not so sure. There’s nothing stopping GM, Ford, or Chrysler from taking the bailout money and then declaring bankruptcy.

    The big 3 claim they don’t want to declare bankruptcy because supposedly doing so would shatter public trust in them and people would never buy from them again. Guess what? That ship has already sailed. I’m not ever buying another big-3 car. The next time I’m buying a new car, I’m going with either a Toyota, Honda, or Mazda. I don’t want to have to worry about the warranty not being honored because the manufacturer declared bankruptcy.

    The big 3 don’t appear to be willing to change how they do things. If they get the bailout, they will just continue building gas guzzling trucks using high priced labor. Ford’s top selling “car” this year is the F-150 truck.

  59. IgotMine says

    I agree that the management of the big three had been arrogant in the past, thinking that everyone would continue to buy their overpriced cars, or more directly, trucks and suvs. . .are you REALLY going to blame the “uaw goons” as one poster put it? The workers at Honda, Nissan and other automakers, owe the UAW a debt of gratitude. What would wages be at their factory if the UAW did not fight for better wages, better working conditions and better benefits?

    I have a nursing degree, and I can afford to eat out, so this guy who claimed the contrary is either lying about being a NURSE (I make 42 dollars per hour, but pay for my own healthcare and retirement)

    The tone of this debate lately has been down on UAW workers. If they have such cush jobs, merely putting “screws into holes” perhaps one should look at the rates of injury of these workers, high blood pressure, stress related illnesses. I saw a report that showed that line workers at one GM plant work 55 seconds out of every minute they are clocked in. . .. Do YOU work 55 seconds of every minute of every 8 hour shift.

    The contracts calling for retirement benefits for retired workers SHOULD be honored. . .the workers signed up in good faith to agree to these terms, and their end of the bargain has been upheld!

    During the 70s and 80s the federal government did prescious little to protect American autoworkers jobs , allowing imported cars to flood the market while exports were taxed to the point of being uncompetetive. NOW these foreign automakers are making their products here, without the drain of having to pay so called legacy costs. . .my friends we are ALL paying legacy costs, we will pay even more if the UAW and other unions are busted by three senators from the south who are beholden to the likes of Nissan, VW, hyundai and others in the automotive manufacturing industry!

  60. says

    @IgotMine:

    The workers at Honda, Nissan and other automakers, owe the UAW a debt of gratitude. What would wages be at their factory if the UAW did not fight for better wages, better working conditions and better benefits?

    Reading the comments here makes me think that the UAW deserves credit for every good and decent thing we have in this country. I can’t speak for Honda, Nissan or other non-UAW automakers, but I’d imagine they would argue that they are getting paid what they are getting paid because they deserve it. They make a quality product that people want to buy.

  61. Gary says

    I can’t believe how nonsensical most of this discussion is. People are quoting wages without regard for geographic location (as if the standard of living doesn’t vary in this country). People are mentioning careers without regard for longevity or credentials (such as nursing). It might be useful to differentiate between associate’s degree, bachelor’s or master’s?

    Yet, in the end none of this matters because this is all quibbling over irrelevant details. This issue can simply be stated that you can earn whatever you can get provided you can sustain it. If you can’t there is nothing to suggest any one industry is entitled more than another is. This has been an ongoing problem in this country from subsidies to certain industries to unqualified
    bailouts in a feeble attempt to retain the status quo.

    Major failures may be the only means by which we can restructure into a healthier economy. While it will certainly be painful and disruptive, we cannot correct the economic problems of this country without consequences. Regardless of how many people are ultimately affected we cannot arbitrarily be held hostage by any industry simply because the effects are far-reaching. Only when people are faced with hard decisions can reasonable choices and changes occur

  62. Gary says

    Regarding the nurse making $42/hr, I would suggest a reality check with the rest of the profession.

    The average salary in this country is between $24/hr & $25/hr. Even a director nursing services was listed as averaging $31/hr. While I realize there will be some higher or lower depending on the geographic location in which the nurse works, it is highly presumptious to suggest that an individual who is NOT earning $42/hr is lying. In fact, it seems highly likely that the reverse may be true.

    http://www.simplyhired.com/a/salary/search/q-nursing

  63. Gord says

    Regarding $78.21, according to the Center for Automotive Research
    This means they are paying $50 in benefits per hour, now thats crap.
    Looks like “Center for Automotive Research” is a right wing think tank trying to make the workers look bad.
    The problem I see is not in wages, it’s how you spend them. If you spend your money on off shore junk, you hurt yourself and also North America. The containers that are coming everyday on the ships make the corporations huge money. Even if you made a buck per hour, you still won’t compete. $300 wholesale in USA is about $15 cost in China.
    Enjoy your way of living, it won’t last…..

  64. gtruth says

    Your right 70gord, many people forget why we are in this predicament (THE ECONOMY). We are not producing enough in this country, we are only buying stuff on credit that’s how are economy got such an inflated (GDP) the banks and china are making tons off of Americans while we bitch about who should be making what money and who gets what benefits. There are a whole generation of people getting the benefits of retired autoworkers that are not autoworkers,forget about it think about now and how we can improve everyone’s standard of living. Remember Ross Perot he said you open our markets without requiring everyone else to do the same you will hear a large sucking sound( jobs,wages,benefits) he was right that’s why we are where we are. The big three would not be in this mess if was not for the banks and there credit crises. They should have never bailed anyone out banks, big three, etc. They are bailing them out because it is going to help wall street that’s the only reason they are bailing auto industry and banks out. I am an autoworker i did not care whether they bailed us out or not because everyone would suffer Toyota,Honda,Hyundai, all suppliers etc. And if they did not bailout the banks all the wealthy people who didn’t have there money in an offshore account would lose everything. Yes we autoworkers make more than we should, but let me ask a question if you were offered a job one for 10 and one for 28 dollars an hour would you turn it down because the guys making 28 make to much for their industry. I say most of you would say no. I am moving out of automotive and guess what i am making more than 28 dollars an hour now as a network engineer another two years i plan to start my own business too in web design. My overpaid auto job helped me do this its called capitalism. And i started at 8.00 working for a supplier in 1993.

  65. jeff says

    @Gary: thanks gary no one understands that in the midwest if you are a nurse 20 some dollars an hour is pretty good. starting out 2 years ago i started at 18/hr. I know that it is higher in california and texas and other southern states but some of them have a lot worse work enviornments. taking 8-12 patients per nurse is just asking for someone to die. thats just too many people for one person. So i will stay where i am in order to keep people alive rather than kill more than i save.

  66. Doug says

    To you all who are so upset what your fellow American is making under a negotiated union contract: Unionize with your fellow workers and negotiate your pay raises and benefits! Why blame the worker bee for the mistakes of senior management. Without a strong middle class in this country, we will fail.

    All I see here is jealousy. I don’t hear a single person calling for an entire wholesale change of senior management with the Big 3. They signed these UAW contracts and are fully to blame for profitability. Don’t blame the people who build the cars. They show up and punch the clock and build as they should. It’s not up to them to crunch the numbers!

    Fire senior management and rehire!

  67. says

    @Doug:

    All I see here is jealousy.

    You sure it’s not one of the other seven deadly sins? From where I’m sitting, it looks an awful lot like GREED.

    I just don’t understand how anyone can think that someone with no education or no real professional skills has the right to earn $28.12 plus benefits. Don’t get me wrong. Its great if you can get it. The problem is, we are quickly getting to the point where you can’t get it. Time is running out. The problem has been temporarily put on hold thanks to a massive government bailout.

    That doesn’t mean the problem is gone.

    What really surprises me is when UAW members attack management for all the problems. As far as I can tell, the biggest mistake management ever made was to agree to pay people $28.12 plus benefits to tighten bolts. UAW members should be much more appreciative.

  68. Doug says

    @Rick
    I just don’t understand how anyone can think that someone with no education or no real professional skills has the right to earn $28.12 plus benefits.

    -Just how much should someone with no education or skill be paid? GM management agreed to pay these wages through a negotiated union contract. If these employees are so uneducated and underskilled, there’s an abundance of potential new employees wondering the streets. Make it miserable, the employee quits or gets fired and then hire low.

    To pin GM’s woes on what the worker makes is absurd. The workers don’t pick the designs that don’t sell. They simply work the line on what management tells them to build.

    Please, please, someone show me an example of how much better a Honda is that a GM product. Every Japanese car I see that’s much past lease turn in is starting to sag and is being driven my a pimply faced teenager with smoke blowing out the custom exhaust can.

  69. says

    @Doug:

    To pin GM’s woes on what the worker makes is absurd. The workers don’t pick the designs that don’t sell. They simply work the line on what management tells them to build.

    No, but the high cost of labor encourages the American automaker to produce larger, higher priced trucks, vans, and sports utility vehicles so that they can recoup their labor costs.

    If you had a fully staffed assembly line making a total of $78.21 an hour, what would you have them build? Silverado trucks or Aveo cars? The high cost of labor has helped turn the American auto industry into gas guzzling truck and SUV makers, not car makers.

  70. Mike M says

    @Doug: Every time I see a new poster I’ll repeat my question. Why should the American tax payer foot the bill for your employers failure?

  71. Doug says

    Mike,

    Why shouldn’t they?

    If you live anywhere near the auto plants you will understand the sheer number of people employed by or people servicing UAW employees. Suppliers, medical facilities, restaurants, stores etc all driven by the livelihood of the manufacturing base of the giants known as the Big 3.

    The precedent was already set years ago, this is nothing new.

    Would you rather spend your tax dollar to try to bail them out with government oversite or spend it on unemployment?

  72. Mike M says

    Come on……. you have basically the same answer as Lynn “Because a bunch of people will lose jobs, not just autoworkers.” I’m still not convinced. Actually her first response was to call me a complete idiot and then go on to help me understand why I’m an idiot, so thank you for being polite.
    I didn’t ask about precedent.
    Employers pay unemployment tax, so I don’t know that unemployment claims actually cost the average taxpaying citizen that much.

  73. Doug says

    Baseball, hotdogs, apple pie and Chevrolet…..

    If you don’t recall that jingle, you’re not old enough to understand the severity of the crisis.

    It’s all about investor confidence. If the government allows them to fail without assisting, consumer confidence is shaken.

    Have you read about Chinese factories closing doors, locking up, and no more work for their employees because the US market is down 10% on toy purchases? It all adds up and most believe that with the government loan, it is the best of all evils to prevent any further meltdowns in the economy.

    Consumer Confidence-final answer.

  74. says

    @Doug: Customer confidence? That ship has sailed. I will never buy another American car again. I don’t want to invest in an auto made by a company that needs government handouts to survive.

  75. Mike M says

    Solid as a rock, yeah. I’ve never met a Chevy I liked.
    A Government bailout doesn’t restore consumer confidence. The damage is done as far as consumers go. How does giving money to a failing business make people believe in that businesses product any more than before the failure?

  76. Mike M says

    Actually I just bought a three year old Ford pickup. So I can’t claim the same steadfastness as you, Rick, but I admire you conviction.

  77. says

    @Mike M: It’s not really a conviction, it’s more common sense. I don’t want to worry about the warranty being worthless because the manufacturer declared bankruptcy and doesn’t have to honor it. The government loan only increases the risk of bankruptcy.

  78. Doug says

    Rick,

    Thanks for your efforts to support American companies.

    Would government handouts include tax abatements to attract stores or factories to certain communities?

    Down with government handouts!! LOL!!!

  79. Gord says

    @Doug: Every time I see a new poster I’ll repeat my question. Why should the American tax payer foot the bill for your employers failure?
    How do you think products are produced for so cheap offshore? China, Japan and other countries are “helping” their companies to produce a product that is so cheap, no one can compete. It has a lot more to do that just the wages, they are filling containers and you are running to Wallmart and HomeDepot to buy the crap. Many of these companies are what you think of as American, but they have the factories now in China. The CEO is making the bucks, but he will tell you it’s all for the share holders.
    This bashing started at the wage of the workers, how come in Canada, Honda has dropped in sales below the big three. Are they paying their workers $78 per hour?

  80. lori says

    What is wrong with you people! I am a autoworker, so I may speak with passion (forgive me in advance)ok here i go… UAW workers deserve every penny they make! we put a lot of our money back in to the economy,because we DO spend! and we give to charities! we are good charitable people(.we know we are blessed. and most of us give back!) and we also pay more in taxes than most! Everyone profits from us! And all you haters… had just as much of a opportunity to work for the big three as I did! unless of course you could not pass the tests that is required to get hired,or your a child molester or, you have a felony criminal record,or you were just too lazy, to even go and apply for the job.But of coarse you would never apply to get a job with the big three, because…you would never accept a job that would over pay you!(haha) Did you ever consider that we our not over paid your under paid?.And in case you havent noticed we are not the only one receiving help in this economy! If we dont get help this way we may get it in other ways,like when they foreclose on our homes or when they pay for our kids to go to college, or maybe we will get foodstamps,or welfare (God knows we paid into it for years. why not reap some of the benefits of it?) of coarse we want to work, but if there are no jobs, what choice do we have? than again… maybe some us uneducated nitwits might be taking your jobs! careful what you wish for! Hopeing for the best for all Americans God bless us all.

  81. red says

    Forget the auto places! no one has money to buy cars! stop making them. drive the old ones for a while!!! bail out the hard working american!! an extra 13 dollars a week? then you raise gas to get it all back? its all bull! we dont need cars when no one can afford them..be real..we dont need all these cars or dealerships..there are others who need that money!

  82. says

    True, but in our society, we have built our cities AROUND the automobile. Here in Houston, TX, you can’t even go to the corner store without a car…please, just shoot me.

  83. gloria says

    I have to reply to Igotmine . you state , and I quote

    “The tone of this debate lately has been down on UAW workers. If they have such cush jobs, merely putting “screws into holes” perhaps one should look at the rates of injury of these workers, high blood pressure, stress related illnesses. I saw a report that showed that line workers at one GM plant work 55 seconds out of every minute they are clocked in. . .. Do YOU work 55 seconds of every minute of every 8 hour shift. ”
    My dear I am a trucker , we work 11 to 14 hours a day , often waiting until our 10 hour break to eat , most days going 11 hours without a bathroom . Some of us may be lucky and have a chance to purchase our health benefits , most if not all of us will end up on SS when we get too old or too broken to work anymore as there are very few if any trucking companies that have a “retirement package” We spend our lives making sure people get their food , clothes , cars , parts , etc. Oftentimes at the detriment of our health or our families . You get to go home at night , every night and see your son or daughter grow up . I realize that trucking , like any other job is a choice we make ,it is not foisted upon us , nor are we indentured servants .
    The autoworkers have also made their career choice , and who can blame them with such wonderful perks ? However , you need to realize that the unbending neck of the union and their workers is going to get bent or broken in the near future . There is no sense in this refusal to do whatever you can right now , to keep their jobs . Ask the steel workers where their constant no votes got them . Oh , that’s right , you can’t cause they don’t have jobs anymore !

  84. george rondo says

    Lori,

    after reading your statement about “uneducated nitwits” I burst into laughter. The fact that your grammar and spelling skills are so sub-par can only serve to underline the point that auto workers are overpaid if you are an example of one. Bottom line is – your pay should be justified by the skills that you can bring to the table and not by how long you can wrestle your employer to the ground and hold them hostage to the relatively simple skills you do possess. Mob mentality certainly is present in the UAW and the CAW and they are only as smart or skilled as their stupidest member.

  85. Steve says

    Hi all, forgive me for wading in on this late, and from Canada, eh? The collective bargaining process has left us all where we are today – high labour costs, low margins, and no ability to absorb a decline in sales due to a recession or waning interest in the product – in this case gas guzzling vehicles.

    The legacy costs are a result of two issues – bad collective bargaining on the side of management and the UAW/CAW, and the changes in accounting rules that forced companies to account for the unfunded liability of future retiree benefits. This later issue basically left about 1.5 retirees in the back seat of each new Big 3 vehicle sold. So no wonder the costs are so high for these vehicles – its not the $26/hour + benefits for current employees that is so costly – its the almost $40/hour for current and future retiree benefits that is the problem.

    As for bailing out the Big 3 – which should be the topic of discussion (and not whether these workers deserve the $$’s, are educated etc..) seems to me that we all face a collective issue here. Will the failure of hte Big # contribute to the rapid downward spiral of the economy, or will it result in the restructuring of the manufacturing sector, which in the long run will shore-up the economy and make us all more resilient to then be able to weather future economic turmoil. While I would like to believe in the later, I fear the former – at least in the short-term.

    Perhaps what is needed is a combination of worker concessions, loans from the government backed by property or other real-value capital from the Big-3, and a serious commitment by the Big-3 to stop doing things the way they have always been done – 3-5 years behind the times in terms of demand for certain features in automobiles that the off-shore companies seem to be able to meet. In this case, its efficient, safe, and reliable transportation with some sense of style (hmmmmm I guess that is not a change – many of us have always wanted this!)

    Anyhow, I realize some concessions/bailouts have already been agreed to.. but thought I would add my thoughts in case anyone is still reading this!

    Best to all.

    S

  86. Dwellay says

    These companies are not run by idiots?? Didn’t they go bankrupt? Did they change their business plan to compensate for a changing customer? Did they agree to the union demands? Please, you cannot honestly defend the people running GM with this outcome….

  87. Dan says

    Just because the big three fail doesn’t mean people will not stop buying cars. People will always have a need to drive, and those 2.5 million people you speak of tied to the big three will just began working for an auto company that is selling cars to consumers.

  88. Dan says

    Hmmm…thats BS. Autoworkers are far from being the hardest working people in America. Airport luggage handlers, tobacco farmers, roof construction are all much tougher jobs.

  89. Frank says

    The UAW is really the reason that the big three are in such bad shape… Auto workers that make $28 an hour plus benefits is just too much. I am about 3/4 of my way through an engineering degree and sometimes to get through it I will go several days in a row with 2-3 hours a sleep a night, living on nothing but taco bell and energy drinks… I tell myself I am doing it for a good well paying job when I graduate but then I find out that assembly line workers are making more than I will be making it kind of infuriates me. Provided I make it through I will be in the top tier of desirable employees and I will be compensated less than the person who screwed in the same 5 bolts over and over again through his/ her entire life.

    Being an aspiring engineer it really pains me to see an American auto manufacturer doing so poorly. A lot of it does have to do with the top executives wanting to simply make more money than anything else, but unfortunately instead of improving their product when they have an extra buck, UAW immediately demands raises or better benefits else they will strike. Since a strike will make these businessmen lose money short term, they concede due to the enormous fixed cost of auto manufacture.

    All in all UAW is an out of date organization, way back in the day they were needed along with other unions. But since the union heads know that once they are content with some level of salaries for their workers, they are out of a job. Therefore they continue to whine and moan until they destroy the very companies that employ them all

  90. snoglydox says

    That is pretty funny, because there is real truth to that; we will start to see special colleges open up for cleaning toilets, too. Yet they will get paid less than the previous toilet cleaners, but will have an increased dept from college loans.

  91. says

    Hey, everyone likes to make fun of the people that clean toilets, but when you find yourself sick to your stomach and leaning over a public commode, a clean toilet becomes one of the most important things in the world.

  92. snoglydox says

    Posters do not have a problem with the employees; the problem is people (some with college loans they will spend there rest of their lives paying off) who make less than half the average wage of an auto worker, covering auto workers employment. Most everyone has taken a pay cut in the last twenty-thirty years; why should the auto industry behave any differently (actually, I believe executive level greed/mentality is one of the main problems.)

    I do not get the logic of spending gives a person the right to deserve more (the food stamp comment is along the same logic;) if a person makes more money, that person has more to spend (many people only have enough each month to get by, let alone enjoy the opportunity/privilege to put “money back in to the economy” beyond living expenses.) That is similar to the snobbish thinking, of kings and landholders of former times, and of overpaid executives of today; seek first to understand, then to be understood.

    A person needs high level math, a very deep understanding of physics at atomic scale, and an understanding of systems that took over a hundred years and millions of man hours to develop, to do what I do.

  93. Justin Moore says

    I can agree with you. It is about the decision you make…and the deals you find. The only problem is when housing costs start to skyrocket where one is living, and they don’t make any changes, like new city, housing, etc.

  94. Donny Wallace says

    How far into the 6 figures do the workers who cover cars at GM make? I know of one who got in on an affirmative action program with an English Degree from a small school. He claims he refuses to spend any money unless GM pays for it. Last I heard he took his wife to a 4 star hotel in Germany on GM and had a 4 star meal. I’m not really into a lot of the so-called good life because it seems boring to me- but German seems cool and it must be nice.

  95. Ryan says

    @Chuck: You’re not going to walk dumbass. You’ve probably got more Japanese, Korean, and Chinese products in your house than you can count.

  96. SOCAR says

    “Assembly workers earn their money! The assembly line work is grueling and wearing on the body from performing continous tasks repeatedly over and over”
    Are you implying non-union workers dont earn their money? Most all of us perform grueling wearing work. Thats why it’s called “work” The fact that new hires will start out at $14 shows that the job is only worth $14 p.h.

  97. Anonymous says

    You can say that, when it comes to cars , you don’t want to be in it when the parts fail. Most imports shouldn’t even be on the north American roads, people are just going to die.

  98. willy says

    All new vehicles have a Monronie sticker required by law. But dealers are allowed to price and sell at any price they want as long as they are compliant with other regulations on pricing. All main stream volume brands regardless of make (domestic or import) make the same average profit per unit. Obviously, luxury brands command a higher profit. Consumers are mis-informed and have a vague perception of the truths. Based on most of the 3rd party ranking companies (Consumer Reports, Cars.com, ItelliChoice, Edmunds, etc), Toyota has higher scores across the board. Look up the recall historys of the big 6 (Chrysler, GM, Ford, Toyota, Honda, Nissan) and you will see in the last 20 years the domestics have more than 8 times the number of recalls compared to the imports. Regarding quality, initial quality is good to have a great score, but the 3 year quality ranking tells the tale. Imports fair much better. I will leave with one last comment…. The government ownes the majority of GM. 60 billion plus to bail them out. People think they paid or are paying back the loan. How can GM pay back that kind of money back when it filed bankrupcy and wrote off about 120 billion. Buy a Toyota or something else, but DO NOT buy a GM product.Toyota has almost the same amount of Americans working as GM. Also, did you know that the Toyota Camry is the #1 American Made parts vehicle? Honda accord is #2. Check it ouot. I will never forgive our government for spending yours and my money for an automotive company. I could go on and on… BTW, China is coming to America.

  99. Anonym says

    I build shifters at a small factory for one of the big 3 i make $9 per. hr. and build over 1100 of these parts daily. So it upsets me when people are saying a big 3 that makes 500 parts a day is entitled to $28 hr. because noone would do it for less we do. My job used to be a $30 per. hr. job when it was done by 1 of the big 3 and they belt only half the parts we did. Yes I would love to make more money an hour but in this economy I am taking what i can get. I agree that the UAW has killed the auto industry do to high wages across the board. So please quit defending those that are over payed and saying noone else will do it for cheaper because there are that will do it cheaper and do more work than those that are over payed.

  100. Sara Wright says

    Hey, We all need to work, and I’m tired of the owner making major major major money and not wanting to share…………………Sara

  101. matt says

    dear rick rotten,
    you get wayyy too into this blogging thing man. its been going on for too long man u sarted out talking about the working class hero now your talking about saratoga????? hope off this blogs balls man

  102. Anonymous says

    @SOCAR: I think he is implying that a union bargained for job results in higher wages. When unions were illegal before 1900 and something wages were extremely low. Since no one could afford health care it was pretty much work as hard as you can til your dead. On the other had the owners of the companies lived in mansions that put the royalty in Europe to shame. I had a friend that organized his factory a few years ago. What resulted was the wages doubled the day after negotiation and the workers received health benefits the had never had before. And wonder of wonders the company still made a descent profit.

  103. Delbert says

    @Tim: Germany has robust unionization. Their union banks invest in their patrons industries. Their production per unit far exceeds American companies. Their workers make more then our workers and have a shorter work week. Our companies are dying not because of high wages but because of government incentives to send industry and jobs out of the country along with the lowering of corporate tax rate. That the idea they will use the savings for job creation has been a sad failure. They don’t need to produce to make a lot of money. It is less riskier to not hire people and they still make record profits. Case in point Romney made his money by losing workers and selling the remains of the companies off, not by creating any advantageous economic benefit for anyone other then himself. He has created more poor is what he has done and says they have a safety net. I think if he and his family were homeless and jobless for a couple of years he might then be ready to be president. These peoples greed has blinded themselves.

  104. Delbert says

    @lisa: I think you need to do a lot of research Lisa. You might check out Wal Mart’s businees practices. I will give you a little info to get you started. The workers for Wal Mart make on the average 14,500 a year. The corporation makes in profit 15 billion a year most of it going to members of the Walton family. If they spent 14 billion of that on increases in wages then the average wage of their employees would double. They could actually live descent lives, pay bills, stay off public assistance, buy homes, pay taxes. The Waltons would still have more money then they could spend in 50 lifetimes. In Japan, Germany and most other industrial countries the upper management makes 20 to 30 times what the median wage for that company is. In the United States the upper management make 1000 to 3000 times the median or average wage. Oh. Did you say something about greed?

  105. Delbert says

    @Scott: Those goons have agents who are experts in bargaining for good wages and benefits. I think you may have negotiated the wage you receive now. I also would surmise that your wages have not risen much since the Reagan administration when the country was promised that wealth would trickle down to you. Well that hasn’t happened. And I wonder if wage negotiation was part of your education. Likely not.

  106. Delbert says

    @jeff: Sorry Jeff that you have it so hard. I acknowledge that you do a honorable service. But that you think that union workers are spoiled bunch of bitches belies the fact that they do work extremely hard. I worked in a industry that a union worker made 28 dollars an hour. But, in a non-union job in the same industry the going wage is about 10 -12 dollars a hour and no benefits. The conditions were dangerous and I found statistics that indicated that retirees on the average for this industry die within 18 months of day of retirement. In my department most died of cancer before they were able to retire so those stats may be overly optimistic. I wonder if you spent more time finding ways to organize or getting a bargained for job you might save your self. As it is now you will have to work til you can’t and get a meager amount of social security. Why even the Doctors organize in the form of the AMA and lobby for high return why don’t you?

  107. Jason says

    I work at a tire plant and make about 28 an hour but its tough work. I wish everyone would quit complaining about someone making a decent wage. Just be glad we still have a few jobs in America. That’s all

  108. DJ says

    I work at fords. First off ford never asked for a bailout. 2nd im not fat nor lazy. Im pretty fit. 3rd I make 16 a hour and gonna top out at 24. If you were making 50 a hour, I’d tell you good job. Im not a jealous, crying little bitch. Sorry you went to school and became a RN only making 15. If you took half the time that you did on here bitching and crying because you’re a judgemental baby than you could of sent out a resume and got 30 a hour. Hell my wife is a RN and makes 36. So all you little crying girls making less, I bet if the opportunity came to your face you’d jump all over it. So yea im making good money and work hard and saying kiss my ass jealous fucks.

  109. Rick Rottman says

    You work at “fords”? You’re probably the reason the trunk on my Focus doesn’t ever close correctly. Thanks.

  110. Scott says

    John, are you saying you cant support a family on $28/hour?! Thats 55-60k a year! If not forgive me, but if so unless you have 5 kids you’ve got to be crazy. Turn off your cable/satellite TV, downgrade from the smart phone to a basic one, start buying inexpensive used cars, and dont eat out for lunch every day. This year I’ll make 50k to support my family of 4. Last year I supported 3 of us on more like 35k. $28/hour and having a hard time supporting your family, if thats true you need a financial education

  111. Trilln451 says

    How does a union worker saying he works hard, specifically in response to a post that accuses union workers of being fat & lazy, imply anything about whether or not others are working hard as well?

  112. DJ says

    How do people hate and complain on union workers. Why be jealous. I worked for a environmental company which we union for ten a hour and busted my ass on a daily basis. Then a non union shop and busted my ass. Now I work for fords and still bust my ass for 14 a hour. Point is be happy you have a job. Think I complain about doctors or people who make six figures. The whole point of life is to work to support your family. Why must you downgrade because of jealously. You people must be unhappy in life. Im happy as long as I provide for my family. Point is worry about yourself and not others.

  113. Britt says

    …Well I agree whole heartedly…and to the RN that is low paid…um, whose really the idiot here, because it seems like its you. What other low paid RN’s have you guys EVER heard of? RN’s make damn good money and if you’re not one of them, then something is wrong with YOU. Maybe you should’ve applied at one of the plants instead, its not our fault. I work for chrysler and make $16 as well, which is starting off. Maybe you should join us. You made the decision to go to school and become an RN, so live with it. Dont get mad at us “uneducated folks” for making good money without owing $60k in student loans

  114. edmondramey says

    i worked 30. years at ford motor co. not an easy living all of you should try working in a factory,8.to 12.hours a day. retired and would have lost my ins. except for our union brothers and sisters picking up the cost. i still buy fords to support the american workers. i will never buy a foreign model car.

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