Steven Cohen, co-host of World Soccer Daily, a satellite radio show dedicated to all things soccer, is in a bit of hot water over some things he said on a recent show. On an April 13 episode, while taking phone calls from listeners, Cohen commented on the 1989 Hillsborough Disaster.
It was a horrific event where 96 soccer fans were crushed to death at an FC Cup semi-final match between between Liverpool and Nottingham Forest.
So what exactly did Cohen say? From EPL Talk:
“People showing up without ticket, hell bent in getting into somewhere where they shouldn’t be going because they don’t have tickets, is the root cause of [the Hillsborough Disaster].”
Except this is not what Cohen actually said. The quote is incorrect. The above is a partial quote about the 23 fans that died in a similar fashion in the Ivory Coast at a World Cup qualifier. The correct quote should read:
“The thing is, the 23 that died in the Ivory Coast, in my opinion, the police were absolutely had something to do with it. At the end of the day, people showing up without ticket, hell bent in getting into somewhere where they shouldn’t be going because they don’t have tickets, is the root cause of it in my opinion.
Cohen went on to say more. Also from EPL Talk:
“I’m yet to read anybody write in this weekend’s Sunday papers in England, where they’re all doing big commemorations about the 96, and why we should never forget and how it’s changed the game, nobody discusses the 6,000 to 8,000 who showed up without tickets and my argument has always been, if those people don’t show up, this never happens.”
This too is not an accurate quote, but in this case, the misquoting does not change what Cohen said. His point is that Liverpool fans showed up at the game without tickets. The episode can be downloaded from iTunes. The comments on Hillsborough begin around the 1 hour, 13 minute mark.
People who have a problem with what Cohen said seem bothered the most by Cohen’s opinion that “6,000 to 8,000″ Liverpool fans showed up at the game without tickets. The Taylor Report, the official inquiry into the Hillsborough Disaster, found this not to be the case.
What bothers me the most about all this is that a group identifying themselves as the The North American Liverpool Supporters are trying to get those that advertise on World Soccer Daily to drop the show. They sending form letters to advertisers, urging advertisers to drop the show. An excerpt:
This is not a free speech issue. Mr. Cohen has every right to say what he wants on air within FCC regulations. However he has crossed the line as far as we are concerned. So he is free to say whatever he wants but with free speech one also needs to understand there are consequences to ones action. The potential boycott is one of those consequences.
Except it is a free speech issue and there are no FCC regulations concerning satellite talk radio. Cohen stated over and over again that he was only stating his opinion of what happened that tragic day in Hillsborough. The anonymous members of The North American Liverpool Supporters are the ones that have crossed the line by contacting sponsors to get them to stop advertising on World Soccer Daily.
It’s a dick move.
Is Cohen wrong about the 6,000 to 8,000 ticketless Liverpool fans? Probably, but that shouldn’t matter. Cohen is a radio talk show host. His job is to say things. Sometimes those things are going to be wrong. Sometimes those things are going to be controversial. Sometimes those things are going to be stupid. If you don’t like what someone on the radio is saying, don’t listen. Just because you don’t like what someone says on the radio doesn’t mean you have a right to get someone permanently silenced. It’s wrong.
{ 79 comments }
Rick, you’re totally wrong on this one. You can hear the completely unedited audio from Cohen’s April 13th show here: http://www.epltalk.com/steven-cohen-offers-liverpool-fans-no-hillsborough-apology/6074
Cohen was not misquoted.
This is not a free speech issue. I’m all for people have the right for free speech, but they should not be misusing this right to spread false information.
Cheers,
The Gaffer
@The Gaffer: Cohen was misquoted by you. The above quote, “People showing up without ticket, hell bent in getting into somewhere where they shouldn’t be going because they don’t have tickets, is the root cause of [the Hillsborough Disaster]“, was not about Hillsborough. It was about what happened recently in Africa.
The link you provided is audio from a totally different show.
How is it a dick move? No more a dick move than bringing up such a crazy opinion around the anniversary of 96 people being killed I’d say.
If you want him to have the right to say whatever he wants… then Liverpool supporters have the right to boycott and email advertisers. It’s as simple as that.
And no… he didn’t misquote. Listen to the audio. He talks about it in the next show again. His co-host even grills him on it.
@G: Yes, he (The Gaffer from EPL Talk) misquoted Steven. I’ve posted the misquote as well as the correct quote in this post. Read it and then listen to it yourself.
The “crazy opinion” you refer to is the belief that there were Liverpool fans at the game who did not have tickets. Nobody knows for certain whether this was the case or not. It’s a matter of opinion.
Maybe I’d feel differently about you boycotters/letter writers if more of you weren’t anonymous.
So we don’t exactly get your point I’m afraid Rick. For the record it was proved conclusively that ticketless fans were not to blame for the crush.
So do you think if a talk-show host were to say misogynistic or racist things they should not be held accountable for their actions? What you are championing is the classic phrase ‘power without responsibility’, which is as you may or may not know, one used to describe the journalism industry.
As a journalist myself, I do not consider people like Steve Cohen who mouth-off their opinions live-on-air, simply because someone has been foolish enough to give them this platform, to be ‘journalists’. Calling them so would be the same as labelling a one-year-old who picks up a crayon, an ‘artist’.
Cohen is not just leaving his thoughts in some online blog, he has a captive audience and thus has a duty to think before he speaks. Furthermore, the relatively ‘new’ following Football has in North America means a vast proportion of listeners may be taking information they hear as ‘gospel’ .
It is foolish logic to believe that anyone should be allowed to speak freely through whatever medium, to an audience, uncensored.
@Joe Mather: Steven Cohen is not a journalist, nor has he ever claimed to be one. He’s a talk show host. Part of the job of a talk show host is to say things and to share opinion.
Sometimes, these opinions may be controversial.
And I’ve read the interim Taylor Report. It seems to me that one could pick and choose from the report to “prove” anything they wanted. The fact is, nobody knows just how many ticketless Liverpool fans were at Hillsborough that day. The report states that “most of them had tickets” (par. 64). How many out of the over 5,000 Liverpool fans trying to get in is “most”?
The report states that the crowd outside the gates had become unmanageable (par. 67). People were pushing and shoving and trying to get in. Gate “C’ was momentarily opened to eject a youth who climbed in without a ticket and 150 Liverpool fans rushed through before the gate could be closed.
The crush had many contributing factors. There was no one thing that caused it.
Rick, how much do you know about football?
Are you qualified enough to be making opinions about Hillsborough?
Or are you just thinking Cohen may have a point and decided to back him up?
Have you read the Taylor Report in full?
Did you know an application for change of venue was rejected, and that there was a crush problem in the Leppings Lane pens the year before?
Wether there were ticketless fans there or not, its down to the people in charge to ensure people’s safety. How are the fans outside supposed to know its full inside? No mobile phones etc..
Steve Cohen has made his ridiculous comments before and had to apologise for them.
He then chose to repeat his comments TWO days before the 20th anniversary.
Why do you think he did this?
He’s a shock jock, Rick, and a brainless one at that.
He’s now losing sponsors and people are distancing themselves from him.
Hillsborough was a tragedy waiting to happen, the reasons for which are clearly stated in black and white in the Taylor Report.
Not forgetting of course the massive police cover up.
If you dont believe that either then you should know that one of the police women on duty there that day has finally spoken out, about how she was forced to keep quiet.
It’s high time people stopped trying to defend morons who have no idea what they’re talking about.
It’s disrespectful to the dead and their families, and to every Liverpool/Everton supporter.
Steve Cohen thought nothing would come of it, that he would boost his ratings, it may be dawning on him now how much of an imbecile he’s been, and deserves to lose his job and the ability to carry on spewing his so called views.
The crush did have many contributing factors but not one of them were the Liverpool fans who were just doing as they were told.
Who knows how many ticketless fans were there?
The facts are that no matter how many ticketless fans had turned up, whether it was 1 or 10000, if the authorities had been in control of the situation then people wouldn’t have died.
It’s as simple as that.
The words that Steve Cohen aired are what many people think but those thoughts are wrong.
Perhaps Cohen thinks they are true but that is the problem.
His words are a direct result from the huge cover up operation the South Yorkshire Police undertook.
There aim was to absolve themselves by releasing reports to the wider media that solely blamed Liverpool fans.
If Steve Cohen actually took time to look into the truth regarding the Hillsborough disaster he would realise just how wrong his comments are.
It isn’t difficult to do.
@Nathan:
What, only Liverpool supporters are qualified to have an opinion on Hillsborough? I read the entire interim Taylor report. I know from reading the report that there were a whole host of reasons Hillsborough happened. It was not just one thing that caused it to happen.
It doesn’t matter what I think. It doesn’t matter what Steven Cohen thinks. We are each free to have our own opinions. All said and done, I do not like organized boycotts in response to something someone said. They stifle free speech.
If you don’t like Cohen’s opinion or what he has to say, don’t listen to his show. Don’t try stop him from voicing his opinion.
Mr. Cohen, Your comments on WSD on April 13th, 2009 are disgraceful. Your assertion that the Hillsborough Disaster in 1989
was due to 6,000-8,000 Liverpool Fans without tickets is outrageous and typifies the type of sheer reckless unsubstantiated and
uninformed statements that Kelvin MacKenzie also spouted in The Sun Newspaper in England 20 years ago. Have you even read
the Taylor Report? Were you even in attendance that Fateful April Day? I was Mr. Cohen, and I, along with thousands of others,
take offence to your ignorance. To use your public forum to vent your own misguided beliefs that have no basis of fact and
serve only to air your inflated ego and fill the minds of young impressionable soccer fans in America is even more disturbing.
Was it not bad enough that you had to apologize for your long-held beliefs the first time you verbalized your “Conspiracy Theory”
in 2006? Not only are your comments and long-held misplaced beliefs a disgrace to the families directly affected by the
disaster, as well as the rest of us that will never forget what happened that day 20 years ago, but your professionalism and objectivity
(or lack thereof) further call in to question your self-inflated reputation as being some sort of authority on soccer here,
especially here in the United States, where for reasons unbeknown to me, someone actually thinks you warrant having a microphone
and an audience. You are in the wrong Mr. Cohen. Ordinarily a sincere apology would be appropriate, but that’s a road
you have traveled down before and it clearly hasn’t changed your perspective one iota.
If you would like to actually speak with someone who was there that day, please give me a call here in Florida and I would be
only too pleased to give you an informed eye-witness first hand account. Not that I think for one minute that would, nor do I
think that you have any desire whatsoever to understand and become informed of the facts, which are well documented.
Grant Freer: Boca Raton, Florida:
The reply received from Steve Cohen was as follows:
“No I am not and you should consider the facts. Liverpool are at the center of almost every serious human
violation of conduct. Heysel, Hillsborough, Alan Smith, Singing about Munich 58, throwing #### on United fans at
Anfield, Michael Shields…are you seriously telling me that you are not guilty of any of this.
2 events
4 years
2 different cities
2 different countries
2 different stadium
135 dead
Only common link….well have a guess.
This not meant as disrespect for the 96 or their families but Justice…what justice are you looking for…
to be relieved of the shame and guilt and if you can get the South Yorkshire police to admit something
just to get you off their backs…that is what you are talking about.” Cheers, Steven. Thanks for listening
to World Soccer Daily: 1-866-925-8255 1 323-656-2900
WSD@worldsoccerdaily.com steven@worldsoccerdaily.com
So this is the kind of behaviour you deem acceptable Rick?
Read the letter, and the reply.
As far as being “anonymous” goes, your right. How about I start and “e-petition” and send it round. I could potentialy get over 1,000,000 signatures to send to Fox, and his sponsors. I guess that will help Steven Cohens cause. I think if I was him, I would be gald that no one has even thought that far ahead yet!
@Robert:
What, your copy and paste skills? If so, no. If you are going to copy something and then paste it here, at least remove the formatting. I’ve already read that comment on EPL Talk.
As far as what Steven Cohen actually wrote in his email to Grant Freer, was there anything there that was factually incorrect? No.
It all comes down to a matter of opinion. People are allowed to have opinions.
rick is just cohen with a different name on here
ha freedom of speech – how about right of reply steve? No? didn’t think so. which leaves your claims of freedom of speech where exactly?
Your right on one thing – if we dont like it we wont listen to it. Its the point thats being made to the sponsors and so far, when presented with the facts, are inclined to agree with our views on your so called opinion.
4 sponsors have dropped your sorry ass in the last week -you’ve brought this upon your self steve.
Rick, I’m all for free speech, and I never said only Liverpool fans could know what happened. Some people blindly follow what Cohen says, this is why what he does is so dangerous. It goes way beyond having an opinion, he’s putting ideas into people’s heads which are completely unfounded.
Obviously, if the Liverpool fans weren’t there that day there wouldn’t have been a crush, but that’s not the point, fans go to football matches and its up to the stadium and the authorities to ensure their safety. The proven fact that this completely broke down was the cause of the disaster. To blame the Liverpool fans is ridiculous. Do you really believe that if the fans outside knew that people inside were being crushed to death, and would have barged their way in regardless?
I think this is the simple point anyone who agrees with Cohen is missing.
If there were no fans there, there wouldn’t have been a crush, obviously.
If the authorities had done their job properly, which included NOT battering the ones trying to escape the pens with truncheons back in, and not opening the gates to let them out onto the pitch, even pushing the ones that did get out back in and closing the gate on them….you get the point I’m sure.
You say you read the Taylor Report but I question your understanding of it if we’re even having this debate to begin with.
By the way, just to let you know, these are the sponsors who have dropped WSD: 4-4-2magazine, whoareyadesigns, fado’s and setanta are about to. I believe Heineken are close as well.
I think this goes to show where the majority of the opinion lies.
So my question, do you honestly believe that Cohen should be allowed to carry on doing what he’s doing, regardless of the people he hurts in the process?
(p.s I’m not arguing with you, I’m calm and just asking your opinion)
My opinion of Cohen’s email that Robert posted above:
In those years football hooliganism was rife, the UK is pretty much free of it now, it still continues in other countries, I’m sure you’ve heard the stories.
Cohen’s defence is to list any dirt he can find on Liverpool.
Heysel happened because of crowd trouble, which was rife at the time, do you know who started it that night? I doubt anyone really does but I’m not looking for excuses.
That stadium was crumbling and was a disaster waiting to happen, its a tragedy especially in the circumstances it happened.
Another stadium collapsed recently in the Ivory Coast, while Drogba ans co were there, but no crowd trouble was involved, only police teargassing the crowd for some strange reason.
Then Cohen goes on about people singing about Munich.
That’s the way it was in those days, in the same way the mancs hung up signs saying 96dead wasn’t enough
There are mindless fools in all walks of life, and in every football club around, but to tar everyone with the same brush is very childish and ignorant. 99% of football fans are decent human beings. Thugs were dealt with severly in the 80s and now we can take our kids to matches without fear.
Racism is also being stamped out, with clubs being heavily punished for any offenders.
The point is, Cohen’s hatred is directed solely at Liverpool because of his personal feelings, and is doing so on air. Young children listen to his show as well as people new to the sport and they are being fed too much vile lies from Cohen’s abuse of the freedom of speech. It has to stop.
Cohen’s team is Chelsea, has he said anything about Chelsea fans forcing Anders Frisk to quit refereeing because of death threats? Or what about the latest Norwegian ref from the other night? He’s also recieved hundreds of death threats and has been on the front page of newspapers today saying he fears for his life and his family’s life. By Cohen’s own standars, wouldn’t this make Chelsea fans terrorists?
Or is this title reserved sloely for us Liverpool fans?
I was going to add how another London team, West Ham, had onr of the biggest “firms” back in the hooligan days, no mention of that by Cohen, and no need for me to go on about it because I reckon I’ve made my point.
Please cut and past all this and send it to Cohen, Rick, I’d loveto hear his opinion of what I’ve said.
I’d like to hear yours too Rick, if you don’t mind.
Cheers
Nathan.
One last point I missed Rick..
As you said above, Cohen has the right to his opinion, he can believe whatever he wants if it makes him feel better, but if those opinions directly insult and hurt families who this involves, especially when said at such a sensitive time, then Cohen has gone too far.
Even if he’d said it in a bar and it was overheard by someone who was affected by the disaster, this would be too much.
To say it on air is another level altogether.
This is the problem.
@Nathan:
I’m not so sure what you think we are debating. My main concern, the reason I even blogged about this, is that I firmly believe people should have the right to voice their opinion, even if what they are saying is idiotic or stupid. Especially when what they are saying is idiotic or stupid.
As far as who is responsible for the Hillsborough disaster, I firmly believe from what I’ve read that there is no one single root cause. There were many contributing factors. Anyone reading the interim Taylor report should be able to easily make that conclusion.
@Nathan:
I only listened to the first half of the show today, but you might be surprised to learn that Cohen went off on the Chelsea “fans” that made those threats on that ref.
Too much to deny the utter shame brought to the club again I suppose. I bet he stopped short at calling them terrorists though?
I’m just going to have to accept your opinions Rick, I’ve made my points and there’s no use going round in circles.
I dont understand how you think its alright for Cohen to spread such damaging lies live on air.
What if he created such a myth about Liverpool that one day a group of Liverpool supporters are attacked by people who believe what he says, putting them in hospital or even worse?
There’s a strong feeling worldwide against terrorism and people from related faiths have been attacked for this reason.
Maybe you don’t realise how far reaching these things can go.
If even one Liverpool fan was verbally abused as a result of Cohen’s lies then that’s one person too many.
Do we at least agree on this?
And in this way do you see how Cohen should stop what he’s doing?
@Nathan:
Once again, what I’m defending is a person’s right to voice their opinion. It’s Cohen’s belief that the behavior of some of the Liverpool supporters outside the stadium trying to get in led to the events of that day.
This behavior is well documented in the interim Taylor report.
What’s clear to me is that most of the people who are outraged (!) by what Steven Cohen said never actually heard what he said. Otherwise, they would know immediately that the quote posted to EPL Talk is in fact wrong. How can a person be offended over something they never heard? It’s ridiculous.
” How can a person be offended over something they never heard? It’s ridiculous. ”
Rick,
So I guess hate speech is protectd speech as well? I guess I could by your logic stand on a street corner and go on a racial tirade, and if attacked be in the right. I didn’t have to hear Hitler speak to know what he was saying was wrong. Yeah I know, and here comes the ” how did you come up with this comparison “, but I am taking what you say at face value. Just like people are going to take Cohen at face value with all his anti-liverpool rehtoric. See my point, probably not.
Is slander free speech? Correct me if I am wrong but you can be sued for slander, liable, or defamation of character if you made statements untrue and damaging about an individual? See but I guess it’s ok as long as it’s towards a group of people, and not an individual. You make it sound like you have the right to say what ever you want here in the U.S., but you really don’t.
Further more, when the only thing that can be done about it is to boycott, and write his sponsors then I am in the wrong for excerising my freedom of choice in perchasing from whom ever I choose. Or a step futher I’m wrong for expressing my anger at his statments by writing his sponsors.
Basically it’s like this then Rick, and feel free to correct me if I am wrong;
It’s ok for Cohen to say what ever he feels with no price paid, but if I and every other LFC fan show displeasure at his tasteless comments and opinion the I am in the wrong. It’s ok for him to incite people calling us terrorists, and start his own petition where people are calling us all kinds of ungodly things, but we cant ask for justice for the 96? Or even a slight measure of respect? Freedom of speech is not free, there is a price to be paid for everything. All Don Imus did was make the ” nappy headed hoes ” joke and he almost lost his career. I don’t even find that half as offensive as Steve Cohen’s comments to Grant Freer, or about LFC and it’s fans. I guess the thing Al Sharpton missed was that it was said in jest, and the thing i am not missing is that Cohen’s comments are not.
I bet you feel sorry for Imus as well. He opened his mouth, had the right to say what ever he wanted, and paid the price. I don’t think what just happened to Mrs. California was right, she vocally opposed gay marriage, and paid the price. There is a price to pay for everything Rick, you cannot go around pissing off people on purpose and not expect blow back. I love they way people can be intentionally cruel, mean, verbally abusive, nasty, spout what ever they want out of their sewers and then hide behind the constitution.
You know why he lives here, read European Convention article 10. Don’t have it Rick? well here I can “cut and paste” it for you;
Article 10: Freedom of Expression
(1) Everyone has the right of freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without inference by public authority and regardless of frontiers. This Article shall not prevent States from requiring the licensing of broadcasting, television or cinema enterprises.
(2) The exercise of these freedoms, since it carries with it duties and responsibilities, may be subject to such formalities, conditions, restrictions or penalties as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society, in the interests of national security, territorial integrity or public safety, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, for the protection of the reputation or rights of others, for preventing the disclosure of information received in confidence, or for maintaining the authority and impartiality of the judiciary.
See the part that says, “for the protection of the reputation or rights of others”. We have a little bit of a more lenient standard here. I wonder how long it would have been before he was sued in his own country? Well the LFC game is on, I think I made me point and even if I didn’t with that explination if you didn’t get it now you never will.
Fair play to ya Rick,
Cheers
“
@Robert:
I’m not talking about hate speech or racial tirades. I was referring to the idea that Steven Cohen’s opinions could “offend” someone even when the person that was supposedly offended never heard what Steven Cohen actually said. Not that I really understand those that take offense to the opinions of others. If someone is saying something I don’t like, I don’t listen. It works for me.
Rick, listen mate, I have made my point as clear as day, you are ignoring the issues I am trying to bring to your attention in the most obnoxious way possible.
Whats wrong with you??
I take it you can read English right?
Why TF do you side-step everything I have said?
I asked you some very simple questions and all you can manage is to drag out some tired excuse of an explanation about how Cohen was misquoted in some way?
When I take the time and effort to try and get through to people who I think might just have a chance of understanding what I’m trying to say, and all I get in return is this nonsensical argumentative drivell that you seem intent on to back up this asshole Cohen, Rick, people will simply lose all interest in you.
I only intend to discuss this subject with people who have some form of intelligence, I thought for a second we were getting somewhere but it seems you’ve sent us in a backwards direction.
If you don’t have any kind of positive impact to add to this debate then I’m afraid you’re blog will quickly become void of postings.
I do try my best and believe me you’re not the first I’ve tried to get through to, it’s up to you Rick, make an effort with this or lose your audience.
@Nathan:
Because most of what you have said here is so silly that it does not require any comment. For instance:
This has got to be one of the most absurd things I’ve ever read. Seriously, it’s difficult to have an intelligent discussion with anyone that would propose something as goofy is that.
I didn’t say anything before because I was trying to be polite.
absurd for you maybe Rick, but we have been talking about the weird people in the world who issue death threats etc
who knows what effects Cohen’s idiocy could have in the long run?
What I said that you quoted is a worst case scenario, and who are you to say its impossible?
I think maybe I hurt your feelings pointing out the weakness of your debating skills. Or maybe you’ve realised it wasn’t such a hot idea to start this insane blog about defending an asshole.
You should have another think about what you’re saying Rick.
Take your time.
@Nathan:
No “we” haven’t. I wrote a blog post defending a radio talk show host’s right to voice an opinion. I’ve then followed up that blog post with comments reiterating my opinion on the matter.
You on the other hand have been making one absurd point after another. I now understand why you and so many other Steven Cohen bashers hide behind the cloak of anonymity.
You’re like a dog chasing its tail Rick.
I’ve written lengthy comments full of facts and trying to get it through to you that spreading vile lies live on air is dangerous.
I now fully understand why you say everything I’ve said is absurd
And at the end of the day, its just a blog that I decided I’d leave a comment on because of the idiocy of its content.
What do you want, my home address and bank details?
Hiding behind the cloak of anonymity indeed.
Is that really the best you can do Rick?
For you to answer me in such a way is proof in itself that you have no sensible opinions to come back with.
Carrying on communicating with you is nothing more than pissing in the wind.
As I said before, this blog will quickly become void of posts and you will lose your audience.
So bye.
*tumblweed*
@Nathan:
You’ve written lengthy comments, yes but they haven’t been full of facts. The point is, you don’t listen to WSD and probably have no idea what Steven Cohen actually said. You’re only pilling on because other people who also don’t listen to WSD have told you that as a good Liverpool supporter, should be outraged(!) over what Cohen said on his show.
My point about your anonymity is this: if you truly believed in what you are saying, you would have the courage to stand behind your words. You obviously don’t. Instead, you call people names and make threats.
Oh god, I can’t leave you like this can I ?!
What threats did I make?
Have you assumed I’m one of these death threat weirdos now?
How do you know I don’t listen to WSD?
How do you know I don’t know what Cohen said? and yes he is an asshole of the highest order.
You don’t have to be a Liverpool supporter to be outraged by vile lies.
If we can just step away from your outrageous sweeping generalisations for just one second, I’ll leave you with one last fact.
If Steve Cohen wasn’t a grade A knobjocky he wouldn’t have lost 4(and counting) sponsors now would he?
Can’t argue with that Rick..
p.s. that last sentence of yours makes you sound really desperate, I’m I the only one left on here? lol!
@Nathan:
When you warned that spreading “vile lies” live on air is dangerous. I obviously inferred from that statement that you were threatening Steven Cohen, like the others before you.
If you listened to WSD, you might be able to come up with something Steven Cohen actually said. Instead you claim he is telling vile lies and other such silliness.
Tell you what. If you are really serious about your opinions, create your own blog (you can do it for free on Google) and list the exact Steven Cohen quotes that you think are vile lies. You can then link to sources that confirm your opinion.
If you are really sure of yourself, you can even do this using your real name.
Or you can just keep on coming here leaving ridiculous statements and call people names. Your choice.
Oh dear, Rick, for you to take “spreading lies on air is dangerous” as a threat from me after the lengths I went to to try and explain to you the damaging effects Cohen’s words can have, then I a am now truly lost for words. I’ve reached the end of my tether with you.
Please don’t take that as a threat, I only mean that I can’t continue with this waste of time blog anymore.
Steve Cohen’s insanity is well documented and has resulted in companies rejecting WSD and rightly so.
The stage of talking about what he said is over, all that needs to be done now is to wait and see how many more companies pull out of sponsoring them.
I’m truly amazed the guy’s still in a job.
Until he learns to show people respect and stops trying to profit from their suffering only so that he can boost his ratings, or until he loses his job, then this fight will go on. (that doesn’t mean a physical fight Rick and please don’t take it as a threat)
So listing quotes from this fool or starting yet another blog would only nauseate me further. All people want to do now is forget this ever happened, including me.
If you want to defend him Rick then carry on, you have your opinions and other people have theirs, might be an idea for you to read over from where I began because you seem to have missed the points I’ve made, either that or you blindly ignore them and twist what I say to suit your own agenda.
By the way you say I’ve made threats shows I’m not too far off the mark there.
And Nathan is my real name pal, what’s this anonymity obsession you have? home address and bank details in the post to you asap ok fella, this is a blog pal, I’ve left a few opinions, why would I need to hide?
This is a moot point and you’re clutching at straws to try and back up a very weak defence, that much is glaringly obvious.
I would now actually feel uncomfortable giving you any more information the way you go on about it, accusing me of making threats etc, seriously man, get a hold of yourself!
I now think we’ve covered everything and don’t see the point talking to you anymore, I don’t mind debate but you take things way too far so I’m not prepared to waste any more of my time.
Ciao.
@Nathan:
I thought this was about perpetrating “vile” lies. Now I’m to believe that it’s about showing certain people respect? And for your information, WSD is a talk show on satellite radio. It does not have ratings.
Once again, the only reason I mention the anonymity factor in all this mess is because people such as yourself are making threats and writing emails to sponsors of a show you don’t listen to, demanding that they drop supporting said show because, well, you don’t like what the host supposedly said. Say what you will about Steven Cohen. At least he has the courage to stand behind what he says.
People like you on the other hand, not so much.
Give it a rest Rick, for the love of God, you’re still saying I’m making threats!! AArrrgghhhhh what’s wrong with you???
Whatever makes you happy pal, swim in it.
@Nathan: Please. Stop. You have said over and over that you were posting your final comment, only to return and post more of your asinine blathering.
Look, words have meaning. When you write that “spreading vile lies live on air is dangerous“, that’s a threat. Now chances are you are too much of a coward to actually bring harm to Steven Cohen, that fact does not diminish the fact that you posted a threat.
I’ve given you more then ample opportunity to state your case, to give specific examples of what Steven Cohen actually said that was so egregious, yet you refuse to do so. Now I am going to respectively ask you to stop posting comments here.
Rick Take a look at this 10 minute You Tube video regarding the truth behind The Hillsborough Disaster.
It is well worth a watch and will answer many of your points.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOFhqfOX7Xg
@Paul: Answer many of my points? What was I asking that required an answer?
What Cohen is doing is ignoring the facts – as laid out by a government enquiry – that exonerated the Liverpool fans of all responsibility, laying it instead largely at the feet of the police – opening the exit gate that led to the swell outside bursting into the ground and the football club – Sheffield Weds – whose safety certificates were out of date.
Of course, Cohen is entitled to say what he says, just as he can deny the holocaust or blame it on the Jews. Hardly a more ridiculous angle – ignoring evidence and facts
@Macca: And why exactly did the police open the exit gate?
“When you warned that spreading “vile lies” live on air is dangerous. I obviously inferred from that statement that you were threatening Steven Cohen, like the others before you.”
Hahahaha. And here we have the perfect demonstration of Rick’s level of “debate”. It’s brilliant how the defender’s of Cohen’s lies make themselves look like (p)ricks every time they hit their keyboards.
Ric, you seem so strong in your beliefs that Mr Cohen should be allowed an opinion. The thing is, this isn’t the type of event where it’s a set up for a nice debate or arguement. What Mr Cohen has said have been proven to be lies. It’s not just common concensus, it’s been proven BY LAW. Does that stop him spewing his lies? of course not.
He thinks he knows better than the people who were there on the day, who witnessed it first hand.
He thinks he knows better than the unbiased people who spent years of their lives weighing up what happened and coming to the conclusion ticketless fans were not to blame.
And people like you still feel the need to stick up for him and his right to an ‘opinion’. Would you be doing the same if he said the holocaust was the fault of the jews? or if the ethnic cleansing of the mid 90′s was the fault of the bosniaks? of course you wouldn’t. So why is this any different? Why is such a sensitive topic up for debate based on a pack of lies?
I don’t think you realise just how much this topic still means to to those it affected, which is incredibly sad.
“An opinion is a belief that may or may not be backed up with evidence, but which cannot be proved with that evidence.”
In this case, the evidence is contrary to Steven Cohen’s position on this. The most in-depth and careful consideration of the facts from that day was performed by Lord Taylor. Is Steven contending that he has read and understood the evidence better than someone who spent 8 months immersing themselves in all evidence? The fact that his opinions are based upon innacurate data and complete hypotheticals suggests not.
There obviously needs to be a defence of free speech wherever attacks are made, however when said speech is based purely to incite and inflame, yet made under that protection, any non-violent actions made in opposition must be protected under the same rules. In this situation, I see no reason why Liverpool fans cannot make their opinions known about Steven Cohen to sponsors of his show and encourage them to make up their own mind about his comments. To me, the fact that they are seemingly agreeing with the protests is validation of the inappropriate and incorrect nature of his comments.
Hi Rick,
I’m not sure if you are a personal friend of Cohen but defending his right to ‘free speech’ when the ‘opinions’ he has presented are contrary to the documented facts seems like a bad idea to me. Not only is his view that fans share ‘partial responsibility’ for the tragedy incorrect it is also an insult to Liverpool fans worldwide and hurtful to families of the bereaved victims many of whom are still fighting for justice. He may be an otherwise entertaining radio presenter but he deserves the criticism being aimed at him and I am happy to hear that sponsors are withdrawing their support. His actions are indefensible and his refusal to issue a genuine apology for what he must know is a fabrication and a lie is a poor reflection on his character.
@Phil Blagden: No, I am not a personal friend of Cohen’s, nor have I ever met him. I only listen to his show.
Instead of contacting his advertisers and demanding that they stop sponsoring a radio show you do not listen to, why not instead show specific quotes from Cohen that are factually wrong and show the official record that contradicts his opinion? Even the Taylor report mentions that there were at least some fans outside the stadium that day. Many of them were turned away, only to return later.
The fact that were some ticketless fans there that day is a red herring and completely irrelevant to the cause of the tragedy. The fact remains that the total number of Liverpool fans who got inside the ground did not exceed the total number allocated to the club. They were crushed because police allowed too many fans into one particular section despite having CCTV to help them see it was already way overcrowded. They completely failed in their duties to provide crowd control. It was the Polices job to ensure overcrowding did not occur. They failed because they were terribly organised and this is why people died.
@Phil Blagden: Please correct me if I’m wrong, but weren’t the police worried about a crush taking place outside the stadium? To quote the Taylor Report, “the menace came from the massive numbers (of fans) single-mindedly determined to be in for the kick-off with time running out.”
From what I’ve read, that is why the exit gates were opened, which caused the crush inside the stadium.
Doesn’t that sound incredibly foolish of them though, don’t you think? They had the manpower and the technology to prevent a crush either inside or outside the stadium and instead they aggravated the situation by opening the exit gates to allow more fans rush in. It only goes to demonstrate how poorly organised they were.
@Phil Blagden: Yes, I totally agree. They were poorly organized and inept at their jobs. Reading about it now reminds me of what happened in New Orleans immediately after Karena. Though FEMA did not cause New Orleans to flood, it was their poor organization and incompetency that created much of the problems there.
It’s good of you to acknowledge that and I know you probably think we are involved in some witch hunt here but the honest impression I get from Cohen is that he dislikes Liverpool based on our rivalry with Chelsea. That’s fair enough – I wouldn’t expect him to wish us well in a sporting sense, I don’t get any pleasure from any success that Chelsea have on the pitch either. However the comments that he has made, both recently and in the past are way below the belt. Placing blame on Liverpool fans for Hillsborough is like blaming the passengers on the planes that struck the twin towers for 9/11. It is completely out of order.
Sure Cohen has the right to free speech, but others also have the right to call him to task when he’s spreading lies, disinformation and mistruths. In much the same way that those who deny the Holocaust need to be challenged, so does Cohen.
@Phil Blagden: I don’t think I agree with the 9/11 comparison. I agree with the Taylor Report when it states that a massive numbers of fans determined to be in for the kick-off with time running out created a menace outside the stadium. It’s that same menace that the police were trying to quell when they foolishly opened the exit gates.
I don’t see how that compares to 9/11.
The police opened the gates due to the build-up of fans outside the ground.
In 1989 – unlike previous semi-finals at Hillsborough that Liverpool had been involved in – the Liverpool fans were at the end of the ground on the far side of the city to Liverpool, meaning that they had to circumnavigate the city that day making the journey longer. In addition to that, there were unannounced roadworks on the M62 between Liverpool and Sheffield, reducing the road to a single lane causing thousands to arrive late.
The police did not delay kick-off as was well within their power which would have reduced the urgency to get into the ground as not to miss any of the game.
In addition, the Liverpool fans had the smaller end of the ground despite having a vastly larger following.
At the same end of the same ground in the 1981 semi final between Spurs & Wolves there was a very similar crush, thankfully with no fatalities
Rick, it appears you didn’t do your research but that’s par for the course where Hillsborough is concerned, hence the need to educate the likes of Cohen.
The natural progression from Cohen’s whole ‘shared responsibility’ theory would call into question the following:
• Should those who perished in the death camps under the nazi’s share responsibility?
• Should those who died on board the flights of 9/11 share responsibility?
Of course they shouldn’t. They, like us, were doing as they were told too by those in authority, those supposedly in control.
Would Cohen be free to defame other groups this way without accurate knowledge of the facts or the truth? No. His ‘freedom of speech’ defence only takes him so far, then it becomes defamation and being based in such a litigious nation as the US he should be aware of that. However there appear to be many things he’s not aware of, I think most of that is due to his lack of intellect.
It’s not a perfect example in describing the type of tragedy. However attributing any blame whatsoever to Liverpool fans is wrong. If you are at the back of a queue waiting to get into an event, whether it be a football match or rock concert, you can’t see how many people are already inside and how the crowd is distributed in term of some areas being crowded and others not so crowded. It is up to whoever is placed in charge of the crowd control to monitor the situation closely and ensure that no section gets filled beyond capacity. No culpability whatsoever can be placed on the fans.
@Macca: But the Taylor Report also states that a large group of fans gathered on and around the bridge near the Leppings Lane entrance well before the match and were reluctant to enter the ground early. They instead waited till the last minute to enter.
The Taylor Report states that a massive numbers of fans determined to be in for the kick-off with time running out created a menace outside the stadium. It’s that same menace that the police were trying to quell when they foolishly opened the exit gates.
@Phil Blagden:
Even the massive amount of fans that the Taylor Report stated were determined to be in for the kick-off with time running out and thus, created a menace outside the stadium?
Another red herring and ultimately irrelevant point. It does not excuse the police in failing to monitor the situating or implement a proper solution. So what if there was a build up outside the ground with fans trying to get in on time for the kick off? Delay the kick off if necessary, that has been done before and since then. Waiting until near kick off to try and gain access to a football match is not an offence and never usually results in tragedy, unless those responsible for crowd control fail to monitor the situation properly and provide a safe solution. You are grasping at straws here in your efforts to defend Cohens indefensible comments.
@Phil Blagden:
Not really. I just realize that there are a good many things that lead to the disaster at Hillsborough. It was a chain of events that lead to the disaster. To concentrate on only one of those events, ignoring all the others, is a mistake.
At least in my opinion it is. Others are free to form their own opinions on the matter.
Do you not agree though that if the police had done their jobs properly in the first place that fans arriving late would not made any difference to the fans inside? If the police had monitored the situation inside using the close up CCTV and exercised control over the crowd building up outside there would have been no crush.
@Phil Blagden: Yes, I agree the police were inept and woefully unprepared for what transpired. I am in no way defending the police or their inaction.
It was totally avoidable and that is why Liverpool fans want another enquiry. The polices priority was not the safety of the fans even though it was their responsibility. They could have done any number of things including delaying the kick off but they made a bad situation worse. The pens were filled to around 5 times what they should have held and this was totally the fault of the police, not the fans. They didn’t observe the crush developing they didn’t organise things properly outside. If they had done this they could have diverted fans to different pens and avoided the tragedy. It would not have made any difference what time the fans arrived it there had been proper policing in place.
You Mr Rottman sir, are a hypocrite. You cannot on the one hand say that he has freedom of speech and then on the other hand criticise people who are peacefully boycotting his show.
If I want to engage in dialog with his sponsors, by what right do you tell me I cannot do this? If a group of people wish to boycott his show, that is as fundamental a right as freedom of speech. If I wish to write to his sponsors telling them about what he said, that is also freedom of speech. If I wish to not buy products from sponsors of his shows, that is my right as a consumer.
Just because you don’t happen to like what someone deems to be worthy of protest, doesn’t give you the right to silence them. It’s a dick move!
Your entire argument is a breathtaking contradiction.
If I want to watch Premier League soccer in the USA I have to pay a subscription to the Fox soccer channel. They employ Steven Cohen. As a consumer that cannot watch my team through another medium, I have informed FSC that I would prefer not to pay for Mr Cohen to spew filth at my expense. He’s entitled to do it somewhere else, but if it’s ok with you, and I’d love to have your permission on this if you would be so kind, I’d prefer not to have to pay him to do it.
Thanks
@Joe: peacefully boycotting his show? More like stomping your feet and whining like a little baby if somebody says something you don’t agree with. Don’t like what Cohen says? Don’t listen to his show. It’s as easy as that.
How would you like it if because I don’t like what you wrote about me on my blog, I set about trying to get YOU fired from your job? Is that the way it works?
“More like stomping your feet and whining like a little baby if somebody says something you don’t agree with.”
Dude – you’re the one with the blog writing about it. I’m not whining, just calling you on a logical fallacy.
“How would you like it if because I don’t like what you wrote about me on my blog, I set about trying to get YOU fired from your job? Is that the way it works?”
If I had said something demonstrably false, I would apologise.
But even if I’m wrong – I’ve got free speech right?
Joe, you may want to spend some time getting inside of this before you pipe up.
@Joe:
Free speech shouldn’t matter, right? You’ve said mean, nasty things about me that I don’t like. Using your logic, I should now go and try to get you fired from your job. I should do everything in my power to make sure you can not longer make a living doing whatever you do. I should not only contact your employer and let them know that you have offended me, I should contact those that have dealings with your employer and let them know what type of person they have working for them. A person who says mean, nasty things that simply aren’t true.
That’s the way it works, right?
So if you would be so kind, please send me your real name as well as the contact information of your employer so that I can begin my campaign in getting you fired.
When you are hosting a radio or TV program it is vital to be responsible in your use of free speech. Abusing that right by lying about a tragedy to bait rival supporters in a cynical attempt to drive up ratings is lowlife behaviour. Cohen is slandering Liverpool supporters to an audience that is not familiar with the events of that day and many people will believe his lies. We have a right to ask him to issue an unreserved apology and admit that the statements he made were not based in fact. If he refuses to do that we have every right to complain to his employers about his behaviour and ask that he should not be given a platform to spout his bile from.
@Phil Blagden:
The Taylor Report states that a “massive” number of fans determined to be in for the kick-off with time running out created a menace outside the stadium. In fact, some of those people were without tickets. Why exactly is it so wrong to put some of the responsibility on their shoulders? How exactly can those who created a menace that ended in the death of 96 innocent people be so free of blame? I just don’t get that. I really don’t.
We have been over this repeatedly already but let me just reiterate that the single decisive factor in why fans were crushed is because the police screwed up. If the standard of policing was adequate it would not have mattered one iota what time the fans arrived at or how many were ticketless. There have been 19 FA cup finals since 1989 and nobody has been crushed to death at any of them. Have fans arrived late at any of them? Of course they have! Did it matter? No, because the police learned to do their jobs properly but that’s too late for the 96. Cohen is a lowlife and you should not be defending his right to slander Liverpool fans worldwide and tarnish our reputation in the name of free speech.
@Phil Blagden:
So tell me, at those other 19 FA Cup finals since 1989, were drunk fans pushing and shoving their way to the front of the line like some were doing in Hillsborough? Were fans at any of these other FA Cup finals creating a menace?
I don’t understand why you insist on acting as though anyone who dares to put any amount of blame on the fans at Hillsborough who were shoving and pushing their way to the front of the line is somehow “slandering Liverpool fans worldwide”.
It’s not.
Your selective use of that one quote also demonstrates that you have either not read the report in full or have failed to understand the conclusions reached in the report. When he says the build up of fans outside close to kick off ‘created a menace’ he is merely pointing out that with so many fans in already overcrowded pens already letting more fans into the same pens instead of diverting them to other pens was a recipe for disaster. His use of the word menace does not relate to the intent of the fans or their desire to get inside to see the match. It is always the case that many fans arrive close to kick off. It is never usually a problem. It was only a problem on the day because the police failed to divert fans to the other pens. The fans who arrived close to kick off did not know and could not know that the police were ushering them in to an enclose that was massively overcrowded.
He also states clearly in the report that fans being drunk was not a decisive factor in the tragedy. Did you not read that part?
@Phil Blagden: The word “decisive” refers to something as being the deciding factor. As I’ve already said over and over and over again, I think there are many, many reasons Hillsborough happened. In my opinion, there is no one singe root cause.
I can understand you wanting to have the last word on your blog and appreciate you not wanting to admit you are wrong but you clearly are wrong. The Taylor report does not apportion blame to the Liverpool fans who attended, on the contrary it praises their behaviour on the day and strongly criticises the Police. This is the overwhelming conclusion of the report and your poor interpretaion of that one passage you keep coming back to shows me that you are clutching at straws in trying to find something in the report that backs up Cohen’s view. There is no way the fans who arrived late can be blamed for the crush when they had no way of knowing the police had not distributed the crowd evenly between the available pens inside.
@Phil Blagden:
Maybe, just maybe if they hadn’t been pushing and shoving and had instead stood in line like they were supposed to, things would have been different.
It’s my opinion, that there is enough blame to go around for what happened at Hillsborough.
At this stage Rick, you are beginning to make yourself look like a massive idiot. There wouldn’t have to be much ‘pushing and shoving’ at the back of a major crowd like that to cause a crush. Suggesting that there was without providing evidence just makes you look like someone with an agenda – just like Cohen. People could just shuffle forward a few steps at a time with the people in front doing the same and that’s all it takes. Have you ever even been in a crowd of people going to a major event? It’s clear you will go to any length to defend Cohens lies including lying yourself and it doesn’t matter how many times people debunk your point of view, you just repeat the same nonsense. You claim to have read the Taylor report but your are expressing views directly contradicted by that same report. If you want to parrot Cohens hateful views I will leave you to it.
@Phil Blagden:
Provide evidence that there was ‘pushing and shoving’? It’s from the interim Taylor Report, paragraph 64. In fact, I fully believe that anyone with an open mind reading paragraphs 57 – 70 of the interim Taylor Report can see how at least some – not all – but some in that crowd, the people that would not accept the fact that they were going to miss the kick-off, deserve at least some of the blame for what happened that day.
That’s what I believe. Now if you want to call me names because of it, so be it. I don’t care. I’m just telling you what I think.
There’s always a bit of jostling in a crowd. That’s normal. If the police had directed fans to other pens there wouldn’t have been so much of a bottleneck. You are trying to make it sound like something sinister when it isn’t and you probably already know that. You tried to make an issue earlier out of fans drinking when the report dismissed that as a factor. You have ultimately ignored the conclusions of the report in trying to find something,anything to make the fans look responsible when the report exonerates them. I don’t know if you are just plain stupid or have an agenda but I can see I am wasting my time arguing with you.
@Phil Blagden: Some of the people there weren’t listening to the police. That was my point.
I didn’t know that when I was told to read the Taylor Report, I was forced to accept the conclusions found in the report. I assumed that I was free to read the facts presented in the report and come to my own conclusions. Perhaps it’s a cultural thing.
I am neither stupid, nor do I have an agenda. I just have an opinion that’s different than yours. You are right about one thing though: you are wasting your time arguing with me. I’m done arguing this.