The family of Jdimytai Damour, the man trampled to death at a Long Island area Walmart, has filed a wrongful death lawsuit against Walmart:
The lawsuit claims that besides failing to provide adequate security for a pre-dawn crowd estimated at 2,000, Wal-Mart “engaged in specific marketing and advertising techniques to specifically attract a large crowd and create an environment of frenzy and mayhem and was otherwise careless, reckless and negligent.”
Not that I didn’t see this coming. I just didn’t think it was going to happen this quickly.
Authorities investigating the case believe that Jdimytai Damour was placed on door opening duty because of his size. He stood 6-foot-5 and weighed 270 pounds. If that is true, it would seems Walmart knew the task of opening the door was going to be a dangerous one.
Walmart also likes to stress the fact that Jdimytai Damour did not actually work for them, but that he was employed by a temp agency. As if that fact makes what happened any better. I think it actually makes it worse. Why would they send someone who doesn’t even work for them to open the front door on the busiest shopping day of the year? I would think this task would be something for the manager to perform, unless of course it was something considered too dangerous to have the manager do.
In that case, send the big black man from the temp agency.
Jesse Jace
/ December 4, 2008Not that anyone needs to be told that American holiday consumerism is out of control….but consider this: I worked part-time at Shop-Ko (similar to Target) when I was in high school. I was scheduled to work a special early shift beginning at 5 A.M. on Black Friday (the Friday after Thanksgiving was always a day off from school in my hometown). I overslept and arrived at work around 8:30. Guess who noticed how late I was?
Nobody. Everyone was too busy trying not to get mauled by shoppers trying to get their grubby mitts on Tickle-Me Elmo.
Cayusa
/ December 4, 2008According to what I saw on the news, they are also planning on suing the local police. I don’t necessarily have an issue with the lawsuit, and I too saw it coming, but to claim that Wal-Mart “engaged in specific marketing and advertising techniques to specifically attract a large crowd and create an environment of frenzy and mayhem and was otherwise careless, reckless and negligent” is a bit silly. This guys family was probably in a line somewhere acting much the same as all the other nuts who were out that early in the morning trying to get that “special” deal. I also don’t think it is unreasonable for a store to expect a certain level of civilized behavior from the shoppers. I’d much rather see the family going after anyone identifiable in the crowd than the store where it happened. The crowd contained the nut jobs who forced the doors bow and then shatter. Maybe they should also be suing the door manufacturer for making a product that can’t withstand a crowd of 2000 frenzied shoppers. If this shopping craziness was specific and unique to this Wal-Mart then fine, but the widespread instances of mob rule across the country pretty much proves to me that it wasn’t just Wal-Mart that suffered frenzied shoppers. I’m not defending Wal-Mart or the choices they made in putting a temp at the door on this particular day, but too often we see a corporation blamed for the actions of individuals of in this case a large group of individuals. The simple fact is that Wal-Mart didn’t kill this guy, the frenzied shoppers did. There are individuals out there who are directly responsible for the death of this man as opposed to Wal-Mart which is only indirectly responsible.
Rick
/ December 4, 2008I think the lawsuit has merit if for no other reason Walmart knew they were sending Jdimytai Damour into a dangerous situation. He was specifically chosen for the task of opening the doors because he looked like an NFL lineman. As they are always pointing out, he’s not even a Walmart employee, but a temp.
Even if Walmart didn’t create the dangerous situation, they identified that fact that they had a dangerous situation on their hands and specifically chose Jdimytai Damour to deal with it because of his size.
Rachel
/ December 4, 2008Also, I think it’s presumptuous to state that Damour’s family was “probably in a line somewhere acting much the same as all the other nuts who were out that early in the morning trying to get that ’special’ deal.” That’s got absolutely nothing to do with the case at hand, and is a pretty good attempt at victim-shaming if I ever saw one.
Rick
/ December 4, 2008Yeah, Rachel’s right. I think that if the man’s family was there when he was ran over by the mob, they would have been there when the EMT workers were trying to save him. From what I could tell from reading all of the news reports, they were contacted from the hospital.
Schooly
/ December 4, 2008I am vehemently against frivolous lawsuits- but this is clearly not frivolous. This was bound to happen at some store, somewhere in America. I think the stores do create dangerous environments: they clearly indicate how limited their stock is on certain items to encourage people to come early and shop “vigorously.”
I wish the lawsuit could hurt the company in some way so that it and other stores could learn a lesson. But Walmart is such a juggernaut that I doubt anything could teach them a lesson.
Rick
/ December 4, 2008What bothers me the most about the case is that management evidently viewed the scene to be dangerous, so they sent the big guy who worked for a temp company to open the door.
Cayusa
/ December 5, 2008I’m not at all saying I think the lawsuit is frivolous. Wal-Mart is at least indirectly responsible for a portion of the blame. In reading the news reports though they are going after EVERYONE except the actual people who are DIRECTLY responsible for the death. They are suing Wal-Mart, the county, the police yet there hasn’t been a single comment that I have seen where they are going after the people who trampled the poor man to death. That is what I have issue with. The police are doing what they can, but the family hasn’t mentioned that at all.
I didn’t state that I thought his family was there at that Wal-Mart, but rather that they might have been out participating in this traditional day of shopping. Why does that matter? It may not, but it bugs me that they were fine with the practice until one of their relatives got killed. Every year there are reports of injuries directly caused by frenzied crowds. Nobody who participates in this bargain hunting madness seems to have an issue with it at the time and they faithfully line up like cattle every year. Personally, I stay away from it and have since my first encounter with it back when it wasn’t nearly as crazy as it has become. Fact is there are plenty of sales before Christmas that offer deals that are as good or better than some of the Black Friday deals.
Also, according to Wal-Mart they didn’t send him to open the door. He was to be stationed near the front door to assist with crowd control. It has been brought up frequently that he was only a temp. I don’t see where this has anything to do with it. No Wal-Mart employee is trained in crowd control. They are sales people. This guy happened to be a rather big guy and the store was taking advantage of his large and intimidating size to help direct and control the crowd. The manager was making what he thought was the best use of his staff. He may have been a temp, but on that day he was staff. Any of us, in the same situation, would send the larger members of our staff to help direct the crowds. In their wildest dreams I don’t think that anyone thought the crowd would break the doors down. As reported “The 6-foot-5, 270-pound man died of asphyxiation after being crushed early Friday morning by the crowd, which broke down the electronic doors in frantic pursuit of bargains. ” The doors were never opened.
I think a lot of people are quick to jump on the attack Wal-Mart bandwagon because if they aren’t to blame then what does that say about us as a society. These people that made up that crowd stepped on, kicked and killed a man to save a few bucks on a DVD player. What does that say about our society? What is scary is that Schooly is right, “This was bound to happen at some store, somewhere in America.” If not Wal-Mart, then Target or Best Buy or any number of retail outlets that offer special deals on Black Friday. Do I think Wal-Mart is responsible? Yes, indirectly they are, but no more so than any other retailer out there that opened early with special deals on Black Friday, but where is the outrage at the actual assailants? Is a deal on a DVD player really and excuse for murder? Wal-Mart offered the deals, but it was the crowd of people who lost control and directly caused his death. A sale shouldn’t be a reason to riot. I don’t care if they are giving away free DVD players. As a civilized society we should know better. There is something seriously wrong with us a society if the promise of a few bucks off of the latest toy can create such a dangerous situation.
If it does go to court and Wal-Mart loses, which I doubt (they will settle out of court for an undisclosed amount before it goes to trial) that one particular Wal-Mart, or maybe even all the Wal-Marts will be a bit more careful, but it won’t stop other retailers from offering the same deals next year and it won’t fix the larger societal problems that this event has brought to light.
Rick
/ December 5, 2008Bart, whether or not Jdimytai Damour’s family was off somewhere shopping early Black Friday morning doesn’t really matter. What matters is that Jdimytai Damour deserved to be able to work in a safe work environment. Walmart did not provide that. They obviously knew that it was not a save situation. Instead of gathering up all of their employees and removing them from any risk of danger, they sent Jdimytai Damour and others directly to that danger. In the case of Jdimytai Damour, they sent him specifically because of his size.
I don’t think Walmart would be legally responsible if they could argue that they had no idea it was unsafe. That’s not the case. They knew it was unsafe. That’s why they sent the big guy from the temp agency.
Cayusa
/ December 5, 2008Legally, I agree with you. It doesn’t matter if they were off shopping and participating in the Black Friday madness themselves. I just have issues with those who condone activities by participating in them, but then turn around and when something tragic happens and act outraged. I am sympathetic to the family’s loss, but a part of me is quite irritated at them for lashing out at the police department, the county and the retailer with no public statements or apparent attempts at going after those people who stepped on, kicked and trampled to death this man.
The question at hand is if Wal-Mart knew exactly how dangerous the situation was. I personally don’t think that the manager realized just how volatile the situation was. I don’t think anyone expected the crowd to break through closed and locked doors. To expect an employee (temporary or not) who is larger to be positioned closer to the front to direct the crowds isn’t unreasonable. Like I said before, even a seasoned long time employee of Wal-Mart (or any retailer for that matter) isn’t trained in crowd control. I don’t think anyone at that store thought that this would happen. The store met with police two weeks prior to Black Friday and hired a security company to patrol the property. Does it sound like they expected a large crowd? Yes, but it also sounds like they took what they felt were appropriate steps to ensure a level of safety.
Part of the issue I have is the wording of the lawsuit. At what percentage off the price does it become a “deep discount” and how many items or lack thereof does it take to “created an atmosphere of competition and anxiety”? With 2000 people standing in line they can’t all have expected to be able to get those “primo” items. How much of a particular item does a store have to stock before it is considered a reasonable amount?
What exactly in their ads is was designed to “create an environment of frenzy and mayhem?”
Wal-Mart employees weren’t in the parking lot whipping the crowd into a frenzy. It was the people in line who surged and created a state of panic. I’ve been in my share of lines, both at concerts and even to get a Wii when there was a limited amount available. When the crowd reaches a certain point, all it takes is an offhand comment to panic a crowd. The close it comes to door opening time the tighter the line gets and the more pushing and shoving there is. Is Wal-Mart to blame for that?
Could they have done more to ensure a safer environment? Probably. In hindsight, most definitely, but did Wal-Mart’s sale create the panic? There are super sales all the time. The hype that surrounds Black Friday that is perpetuated by the holidays, the media and yes, the stores themselves, however, make for a volatile situation.
There are people out there right now, who are directly responsible for this man’s death, yet the focus is on a store that was offering a sale. I am not absolving the store of any and all blame, I just think there are people who were in that crowd who are more responsible for the death than Wal-Mart.
Rick
/ December 5, 2008If the Walmart manager did not realize just how volatile the situation was, then he or she is negligent. The police met with the store two weeks before the sale and told them that they were responsible for security. Jdimytai Damour was sent to the entrance to do crowd control. It’s something he wasn’t qualified to do. He was tasked to do this dangerous job because of his size. Walmart had him do something extremely dangerous that he was in no way qualified to do. As soon as they realized they had a mob of 2,000 unruly people on their hands, the safety of not only the employees, but the shoppers should have been the only priority.
What if that same store had an electrical problem and instead of hiring a licensed electrician to fix the problem, the manager grabbed Jdimytai Damour and had him fix the problem? Maybe because of his size, the manager thought he might be less susceptible to electrical shock. Damour tries to do what he was told and gets electrocuted. Would you tell his family to sue the actual free flowing electrons that killed him or the manager that tasked him with the job he wasn’t qualified to do?
If Walmart had better security cameras, the people that actually stomped on Jdimytai Damour might be in jail right now. Walmart stores have crummy security cameras. The richest corporation in the world does everything on the cheap.
Cayusa
/ December 5, 2008Every year on Black Friday crowds gather at big retailers in large numbers. Target, Wal-Mart, Best Buy, etc. all draw larger crowds in the thousands. I am sure this isn’t this particular Wal-Mart’s first experience with a Black Friday. In the past they haven’t had an issue this serious. Nobody has. To be “safe” this Wal-Mart hired extra security. The problem with crowds is they are unpredictable. Nobody could have predicted that this particular crowd on this particular day would break down the front doors to the store and rush in.
With the testimony that has been given so far, of which I am sure we haven’t heard everything, I’m not convinced that the manger was negligent. Was Jdimytai sent to the door before or after the “surge” had started? Was he sent to stop it or was he positioned close to the doors to act as a visual deterrent to craziness? What level of “crowd control” was he expected to provide?
I agree with you on a lot of points, and I’m not siding with Wal-Mart. All I’m saying is that it is really easy to blame Wal-Mart for this man’s death. I’m not surprised by the law suit nor do I think it is frivolous. Including the country and police in the lawsuit, however is. I guess I wouldn’t have as much of an issue with it if A) I read something, anywhere, from the family speaking out against the crowd and their behavior and their responsibility in Jdimytai’s death and B) if Wal-Mart and the security company that Wal-Mart hired were the only ones named. To sue to County and the police as well is going to far. I don’t even necessarily blame the family for that, but rather the lawyer looking to cash in by suing as many possible sources as he can.
As for the analogy, I don’t see that they are the same thing. An electrical problem is pretty specific. If it is creating a serious problem a simple flick of the breaker diffuses that problem temporarily. I would have no problem as a manager asking an employee to go into the back and flick a switch in the breaker box while I called for an electrician. If he was electrocuted from flicking the switch I would tell the family to sue the contractor and the electrician who installed a faulty or sub-par electrical system. I’ve been in a situation where a boss has asked me to do something well outside of both my skill level and job description and it just so happens to have been an electrical issue brought on by the tenant above us flooding their sink so that water got into our electrical box. I quite simply told him, “I’m not touching that.”
Now, if the manager of this Wal-Mart sent Jdimytai to the front to stop the crowd that is one thing, especially if he did this after the surge started. If, however, he positioned him at the front of the store to act as a visual deterrent of trouble once the doors were opened that is a completely different situation. I don’t think he was asked by the manager to stop the crowd and calm them down and I am sure that somebody in that store was on the phone calling the police the minute things got crazy. Also, an electrical problem is a hell of a lot more predictable than the behavior of a mob. A gathering of 2000 people standing in a line is, in itself, not a dangerous thing, but add to that any number of factors and that crowd can go from zero to riot in the blink of an eye and unfortunately there is no breaker switch that will turn it off.
I predict that Wal-Mart, being who they are, will settle this out of court for an undisclosed amount of money and that will be the end of it. Wal-Mart won’t admit guilt and the amount the give to the family will be enough to satisfy them. The case against the police and the county will be dismissed and next year at this time we will all just have to cross our fingers that it doesn’t happen again. The simple truth is that large crowds will gather again next year at various retailers looking for that special deal regardless of this tragic event.
Rick
/ December 5, 2008The people were not standing in line. It was a huge mob scene where everyone was pushed up against the glass doors. The crowd was chanting, “push the doors in”. How did the manager respond to this situation? By having Jdimytai and other workers form a human chain in front of the doors.
His first priority should have been the safety of his employees. By sending them to the entrance to form a human chain, it clearly wasn’t. Jdimytai was instructed to perform a dangerous task he was not qualified to do. He was killed in the process.
Cayusa
/ December 5, 2008This is where I have a problem. Was he sent to open the doors as previously stated or was he sent to the front to form a human chain? There is a lot more to this story to come. Again, I’m not claiming Wal-Mart is innocent in this, but are the county and county police guilty as well?
If the manager sent him to form a human chain and the crowd was indeed getting unruly then yes, he is responsible for putting employees in harms way, but did the ads and sales cause the crowd to behave this way?
Again, I’m not absolving Wal-Mart of guilt. I just think there is something a lot more wrong here than a store manager making a bad judgment call. I don’t think Wal-Mart is responsible for the mob scene itself. The manager should have reacted better to the conditions, but are they responsible for the crowds lack of restraint? I’m sure Wal-Mart didn’t want their doors pushed in and I’m sure they weren’t encouraging that behavior.
Should Wal-Mart be mentioned in the lawsuit? Yes
Should the security compnay they hired? Yes
Should the County? No
Should the local police? No
Should anyone be identified in the security tapes be arrested and charged? Damn straight.
I just think we make too many allowances nowadays for uncivilized behavior. We’d rather blame the retailer for creating a dangerous situation (which I am not convinced they did) than we would to look at the atrocious behavior of the people gathered in front of the store, which again goes to the wording of the lawsuit. It is one thing to sue Wal-Mart for placing Jdimytai in harms way in a dangerous situation for which I agree they are guilty of. It is quite another to say that Wal-Mart perpetuated and encouraged the “riot” through advertising and sales.
Rick
/ December 5, 2008I never said that Walmart is to blame because they enticed people with their advertisements or sale prices. I never argued that they encouraged people to riot. I think they put an employee in a very dangerous situation. That’s where I put the blame on Walmart.
I read an article in the New York Times that said Walmart called the Nassau police at 3:30am, but the police quickly left to go to Circuit City and Best Buy. I don’t know if there was a mob of 2,000 at either one of those two stores, but there was at Walmart. If the situation at 3:30 required the police to be called, then it was certainly serious enough that the health and safety of the employees should have been considered.
It doesn’t appear that it ever was.
Cayusa
/ December 5, 2008I know you never claimed that Wal-Mart enticed the people with the ads and sales, but that is how the lawsuit reads. If you are going to sue a company for doing something wrong then at least sue them for what they did. I agree with you that the manager is to blame for not handling the situation correctly, but I don’t agree with the wording of the lawsuit and what it implies.
Rick
/ December 5, 2008Aren’t they suing Walmart for failing to provide adequate security? I haven’t read the actual lawsuit. I’ve only read newspaper accounts of what the lawsuit says.
As far as the actual wording of the lawsuit is concerned, I’m not sure I really care about that. I care more about actions. If Walmart can be held accountable for putting it’s employees in danger, than I’m all for it. It’s not like Walmart has a good track record when it comes to the well beings of it’s employees is concerned.
Rachel
/ December 5, 2008Cayusa said:
It doesn’t matter if they were off shopping and participating in the Black Friday madness themselves. I just have issues with those who condone activities by participating in them, but then turn around and when something tragic happens and act outraged.
My problem here is that you don’t actually know if this man’s family participated in a Black Friday mob scene. You’re assuming, which is a bad place to start. And I wonder why you assume they were participating in a situation like the one at this Walmart – what criteria are you using? Class? Race? Socio-economic standing? Or are you simply assuming that because the crowds are large, pretty much everyone participates? Would you assume the same thing about me?
And since his family’s behavior doesn’t actually have anything to do with the events that unfolded at this particular Walmart, it makes me less likely to find anything else you have to say on the matter credible or objective.
Cayusa
/ December 5, 2008No I don’t know if his family was actually participating. My issue was not with his family, but rather that all too often people, in general, participate in activities that have the potential to bring them harm, yet act shocked and surprised when harm finds them and are quite quick to sue and act as if they have the high ground. Even if it isn’t the case here, and further reading as facts have been released lean towards it not being the case, it is something that happens all to often. I have already admitted that it has no legal bearing on the case.
As for why I would assume that anyone would be participating in a Black Friday event a simple look at the news from that day and the night before when people began lining up shows us that there is a large percentage of the population who do indeed participate in Black Friday events. Two thousand people at this one Wal-Mart alone and per the news two other locations in that very town with similar crowds. On a national level that amounts to a significant number of people regardless of class, race or socio-economic standing. The desire to save a buck and get a good deal isn’t limited to one race, class or socio-economic group. No I don’t think that everyone participates. I know many who don’t, but I know just as many that do.
I never claimed to be completely objective. Being that I am expressing my opinion rather than just restating facts I expect most of what I am saying to be more subjective.
Rick
/ December 6, 2008I’m not sure I agree with this statement. I’m not sure the percentage of people that participate in Black Friday events is really all that large. In the case of the Long Island Walmart where 2,000 people showed up at 5am, that might seem like a lot of people until you realize nearly 8 million people live in Long Island. No matter how you slice it, 2,000 of 8 million isn’t a large percentage.
Rachel
/ December 6, 2008No I don’t know if his family was actually participating. My issue was not with his family, but rather that all too often people, in general, participate in activities that have the potential to bring them harm, yet act shocked and surprised when harm finds them and are quite quick to sue and act as if they have the high ground.
So you made a generalization about a negative aspect of human nature, and applied it to the family of the victim. Whether or not you admitted it has no legal bearing on the case is, to me, irrelevant. My entire point is that you have applied an incorrect assumption to an undeserving group of people. While I think many of your arguments about holding corporations liable for the actions of people who should be personally responsible are sound, your inappropriate generalizing (which still comes off as victim-blaming) makes those arguments less interesting and less convincing for me.
Cayusa
/ December 7, 2008@Rick, I understand that 2,000 people at one store doesn’t represent the bulk of Long Island, however, the population of the United States, according to the US Census Bureau’s population clock, is approximately 306,000,000. According to the National Retail Federation’s 2008 Black Friday Weekend survey, over 172,000,000 people shopped on Black Friday, which means over 56% of the population of this country participated in this traditional event. When compared to other annual events that are considered to have large draws, such as the Oscars or the Super Bowl (33 million and about 95 million respectively) they just don’t come close. The odds are slightly in favor of my assumption.
@Rachel, I don’t know that it is 100% incorrect assumption. Per the articles that I read in the New York Times provided by Rick, I know his father and mother were not participants. His mother was out of the country and his father was at home at 7 a.m. There is no mention as to the shopping practices of his sister or her family. As for victim-blaming. No, the victim, Jdimytai, I am not blaming at all. He was doing what he was told to do by his boss. I have never held Jdimytai even partially responsible for his own death.
Every year things get just a bit more crazy on Black Friday. I remember reading about several different fights and reports of injury in some of our local stores. With the economy where it is right now, the lure of super deals was even more enticing and drew 25 million more people out to the shops this year, but it also helped add to the hype and stress of the situation.
At a Wal-Mart just 15 miles away from this one a woman was injured when the crowd rushed the store and ended up with a cut on her leg. Of course she finished shopping before reporting it. This year over 172 million people participated in an event that has, for the past few years, proved to be somewhat dangerous. Should the retailers be held responsible for all of their behaviors? Is it victim-blaming to think that those who participate in an activity that has, over the past few years, proved somewhat dangerous understand the risks they are taking when they do participate. Again, at no point have I ever stated that I believe Jdimytai is even the slightest bit responsible for what happened to him.
Admittedly, I may have been a bit quick to judge on that one point, but no more so than those who automatically jumped on the “lets sue Wal-Mart for a tragic accident” bandwagon before all the facts were released.
Rick
/ December 7, 2008Cayusa wrote:
I was referring to the people that actually go out and wait to get in the stores before they open. Like the mob that killed Jdimytai Damour did. I think the percentage of Americans that do that it actually quite small.
Sheri and I went out later that day and did some shopping. Are we Black Friday shoppers? I wouldn’t consider us that, but I guess according to the National Retail Federation we would be. In reality, us going out that day had more to do with us both having the day off than it did any fantastic deals.
Cayusa
/ December 7, 2008You are probably right in that not everyone represented by that number was out super early shopping and acting crazy, but if this one Wal-Mart is representative of what a typical store should expect and I’m sure the numbers were more at some and less at others, that still represents 3 million people in line early shopping at Wal-Mart. Add to that Target, K-Mart, Best Buy and any other store that offered super special early deals along with the Malls and it is still an impressively large amount of people and a significant slice of the population.
You being out shopping because you had the day off and not looking for those special deals I would assume to mean that you were out and not in any particular hurry. I’m sure a significant number of the people out on Friday fit into that category, but, and I’m going from memory now, if I recall correctly, even at one of my local stores fight broke out last year even later in the day as more inventory was released for the masses. Even being a relaxed, not in a hurry, window shopper on that day still bears with it some risk. it is impossible to gauge where and when a bout of craziness will erupt on any given day, but the conditions on Black Friday favor it more so than any other day. Add to that the state of the economy and it is an even more volatile mix.
What I would hope will come out of this tragedy, and I’m highly doubtful anything will change significantly, is that the stores will stop offering the early opening hours where tired and cranky people line up in the cold getting more and more irritated and that they spread the deals out over the holiday season so that no one day is so overwhelmingly impossible to manage.
Rick
/ December 8, 2008I guess what I’m getting at Bart is that the group of people that are pushing and shoving and acting like barbarians storming the gates when these stores open in all actuality only make up a small percentage of the population. Most people seeing a mob of 2,000 people pushing on the doors at Walmart that morning would have turned around and left.
I despise Black Friday because I think it screws workers. Here in Hagerstown the Prime Outlets mall opened at 12 midnight Black Friday morning. They do this to get customers to go there and spend their money (or use up all their available credit) before they have a chance to go anywhere else. I’d imagine anyone working at the Prime Outlets mall had pretty lousy Thanksgiving. Most likely they had to try to get some sleep before working a shift they don’t normally work.
Justin
/ December 11, 2008Take money from Walmart!!!!Yeah!!!! Woohoo!!!! Is still shop there though. I’m a horrible commie