Monday, June 30, 2008
Who knew Wes Clark was such a dick?
Gen. Wesley Clark, working now for the Obama campaign was on CBS’ Face the Nation were he proceeded to demean and disparage Senator John McCain’s military service. From Politico:
“He has been a voice on the Senate Armed Services Committee. And he has traveled all over the world. But he hasn’t held executive responsibility. That large squadron in the Navy that he commanded — that wasn’t a wartime squadron,” Clark said.
“I don’t think getting in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to become president.”
Let’s call it Swift Boating 2.0. When John Kerry was running for President, the Republicans belittled his service in Vietnam. I remember even seeing photos of women wearing purple band-aids on their faces at the GOP National Convention. The message was that Kerry wasn’t a war hero. He did really deserve any of his military citations including the Silver Star and those Purple Hearts.
It was disgusting then and it disgusting now. The difference of course is that it’s the Democrats that are now belittling the military service of a Republican. The Swift Boating of 2004 did not actually come from anyone working in the Bush campaign.
Is this what Obama means when he says that he is all about Change™?
While I’m not saying this isn’t fucked up, this is what the Democrats NEED to do in order to compete with the Republicans. This is the same stuff that should have been done to Bush by Kerry and Gore and maybe we wouldn’t be in this shitty mess we find ourselves now.
I know it’s stooping to shitty levels, but isn’t that what politics is?
It’s a valid question: Is getting shot down and captured enough to qualify McCain for the presidency? Because he hasn’t got a lot else going for him right now.
That’s not entirely true. The most powerful thing McCain has going for him right now is that he is NOT Barack Obama.
Not necessarily. It doesn’t have to be. Especially when you have a candidate that claims to be all about Change™.
What did Clark say that was untrue or disparaging of McCain’s military service? Absolutely nothing. Stop whining, Ricky.
For starters, he minimized McCain’s leadership experience by stating that when he was in charge of a squadron of aircraft in the Navy, it wasn’t a wartime squadron.
By attacking McCain’s leadership, he is only bringing attention to the fact that his candidate has absolutely no leadership experience whatsoever. If he wins the Presidency, it will be the very first time in his life that he was ever in charge of anyone else.
And if you think that by calling me “Ricky” you are somehow insulting me, think again. I went by that name for years. If it makes you feel any better, if you ever find the courage to start posting under your real name, I’ll make up a snarky nickname for you too. Then again, maybe I wont.
Well, the knee-jerk response to all this seems to have been, “How could Wes Clark be so rude to a decorated veteran?” (even though Clark is also a decorated veteran). But the central issue here isn’t respect for a serviceman. The issue is qualification to run a country. When done right, running a country should be nothing like crashing a plane and getting captured by Viet Cong, so what (other than a lot of shiny medals) does McCain being to the table?
Remember those He-Man figures whose chest armor could rotate to show three levels of battle damage? McCain is just George W. Bush: Battle Damage Edition. TAP, he’s been shot down! TAP, he’s been captured! Now roll it back again and he’s all repaired, ready to make tax cuts permanent and throw the economy face-first in the Dumpster like that kid from The Neverending Story.
I have a buddy who got drunk and fell down some stairs, breaking his wrist, but nobody gave him a medal. Seems to me, then, that he’s even more deserving of the presidency, if only as a consolation.
And Duke Cunningham would, by virtue of his Vietnam experience, be even more qualified than McCain OR Jesse’s friend who fell down some stairs!
Just to clarify, McCain didn’t “crash” his plane. His A-4 was shot down over Hanoi by a Soviet made anti-aircraft missile. He ejected out of his A-4 and landed in a lake were a crowd of North Vietnamese people beat the shit out of him. Both arms and one of his legs were fractured. They were not Viet Cong. The Viet Cong were the guerrillas (mostly) that operated in South Vietnam.
What does he bring to the table? A life dedicated to serving his country. He has years of leadership experience. He also has a record of working with both sides of the aisle. He’s the type of politician that put’s his country above his political party. There is a reason he was John Kerry’s first choice to be his running mate in 2004.
Plus, he’s NOT Barack Obama.
And what part of getting shot down and being a POW is leadership experience? Precisely none. Which is what General Clark said. What IS is about the incontrovertible truth that makes you act like such a whiny little crybaby, anyway?
I don’t believe I ever said that being shot down and thrown into a Vietnamese prison camp made John McCain a leader. I think McCain attending the U.S. Naval Academy along with his long military career give him leadership experience.
I would compare McCain’s leadership experience to Obama’s leadership experience - if he had any.
Why do you feel the name to call me names?
Why do you feel the need to uncritically parrot whatever the rightwing spin of the day is?
I have no idea what the right-wing is saying today or any other day for that matter. Nor do I really care. I simply thought it was wrong for Gen. Clark to discredit McCain’s military service. Especially when his candidate has no military experience.
Clark did not discredit McCain’s service. Learn to read.
Yes he did. He attempted to minimize McCain’s military experience by stating that the squadron he commanded was not a “wartime” squadron. As if McCain doesn’t know a thing or two about war.
NEWS FLASH- This just in: John Smith is a full-fledged dick-hole. News at 11.
And Jesse, you comparing a friend who hurt himself because of substance abuse to a person who was shot down while in service to his country is pretty inflammatory. Are you just saying that to try to get a rise out of people or do you really believe that? Because if it’s the latter, you come off sounding pretty bad.
Rick and I disagree on Barack Obama, but I hasten to point out, for the benefit of Mr. “Smith,” that Rick is anything but a right-wing parrot.
In fact, Rick, didn’t you acquire the label of “left-wing blogger” at some point during your coverage of Wal-Mart hawking Nazi swag?
Wesley Clark was correct when he said that McCain’s POW experience doesn’t qualify him to be President of the United States. That has to be said. But he was also belittling, or at the very least minimizing, McCain’s military record. The main point he was making was that McCain’s military experience was not command experience, unlike that of, say, for instance, a general and former NATO commander. Obama described Clark’s comments as “inartful,” but I wouldn’t be that kind. It was a stupid thing to say.
I’m voting for Obama, Rick isn’t, but we agree on this. Wesley Clark demeaning the military service of John McCain is uncalled for, just as it was when John Kerry’s Vietnam record was questioned four years ago. And — as an Obama supporter, I hate to point this out, but it’s a valid point — the guy Clark is going out acting as a surrogate for has no military record — which matters not a bit to me, but it’s not a contrast the Obama campaign ought to be going out of its way to draw, all the same.
Yes! I forgot about that. Debbie Schlussel referred to me as “Rick of liberal website Bent Corner”. I’ve seen her on the TV so she must know what she is talking about.
And I don’t think anyone is saying that McCain should be President because he was in Vietnam or because he was a POW. At least I know I’m not saying it. I just have a lot of respect for him and his service. Not just his time in the Hanoi Hilton, but afterwards. I respect that fact that he stayed in the Navy and then went on to continue serving the country in politics. I know I wouldn’t have done that. I doubt I could have endured a month let alone five and a half years in a North Vietnamese prison. When I was finally released, continuing a life serving my country would have been the LAST thing I would have wanted to do. I think I would have had too much bitterness to do what he did. For that, I respect him.
That’s not to say that I agree with his politics because I don’t.
Schooly: I don’t think my remarks are inflammatory at all…at least not in any way that matters. McCain can take care of himself regardless of what I say about him. He doesn’t need any babysitting. The only way my comments could be considered inflammatory would be if I somehow shattered somebody’s rose-tinted conception of McCain and his abilities. I suppose that’s the only “intent” I could have possibly had, but intent is always irrelevant.
Nothing McCain has done, in or outside of Vietnam, will ever make him the god that he gets made out to be. I thought blind worship of a mundane human being was something of which only Obama supporters got accused, but I guess I was wrong about that.
I also will not let people get away with saying that Clark “discredited” McCain’s service, because he went out of his way not to do so. He just separates military service from presidential prowess, which is something every intelligent American should do.
Don’t get me started on that mouth-breather Debbie Schlussel.
“John Smith,” at least PRETEND to make an effort to be polite. You’re setting yourself up for many, many years of people ignoring you on the internet….and if people ignore you on the internet, what’s left?
Well, I’m saying that Gen. Clark discredited McCain’s military service because that’s precisely what he did. By stating that the squadron he commanded “wasn’t a wartime squadron”, he is attempting to diminish the contribution McCain and the rest of the members of his squadron did when they served.
I’ll say it again, intention is irrelevant. Your (general “you” here, not “you, Rick”) own opinion about McCain is what matters, not what you think Clark MIGHT be trying to say. If you don’t think it matters whether or not McCain commanded a wartime squadron, then it doesn’t matter. If you don’t think the fact that it wasn’t a wartime squadron diminishes McCain’s service in any way, then it doesn’t. Clark’s comments, just like McCain’s military service, have no bearing on McCain’s presidential ability or lack thereof.
McCain’s military service has no bearing on his presidential ability? You really think that? Though I don’t think military service should be a requirement for the presidency, I think it certainly helps. Especially when you consider that we are currently engaged militarily on two fronts. Especially when so much of our federal budget is diverted to making war.
I still stand by my earlier assessment that Gen. Clark is a dick. He tried to down play McCain’s military service. If memory serves me right, he tried to do the same thing four years ago against Kerry. I think he said that he used to be a general and Kerry was “only” a lieutenant.
Obama chose not to serve in the military. I for one would like to hear his answer as to why he made that choice.
“McCain’s military service has no bearing on his presidential ability? You really think that?”
I’ve already said so twice. Apparently, I really think that.
I didn’t think you were serious. Kind of like when you compared McCain’s hardships and injuries suffered while serving in the military to that of your alcoholic friend that broke his wrist falling down some stairs.